Continental
Topic Author
Posts: 5223
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

Snowstorms And Flight Operations

Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:16 pm

So if you haven't heard, MSP is getting pounded now and DL has canceled over 700 flights. It looks awful outside and I don't understand how any flights could safely operate in this weather.

However, looking at flightaware, it seems as if there are a few random flights still coming into MSP. Why are these flights on schedule but so many others canceled? WN has a flight inbound from DEN right now, and SY has a few flights coming in from the Caribbean and Mexico. How can they pull this off? Are they more confident in their abilities to fly a plane in this weather?
 
cbphoto
Posts: 1122
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:23 am

RE: Snowstorms And Flight Operations

Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:24 pm

Quoting Continental (Thread starter):
Are they more confident in their abilities to fly a plane in this weather?

What does confidence have anything to do with it? If the weather allows them to shoot a approach and the runway conditions are sufficient and safe, then they can land. Their is no gray area here on whether the specific pilot or company can land or not. DL probably canceled for operational purposes and because they have such a huge operation out of MSP, preemptively canceled the majority of their flights. Just because one airline cancels, does not necessarily mean every airline has to cancel! The only confidence the companies might have is that they can maintain a loose operational schedule in the storm.
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
Continental
Topic Author
Posts: 5223
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Snowstorms And Flight Operations

Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:53 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 1):
What does confidence have anything to do with it?

Well it was meant to a be a bit more tongue-in-cheek, but ya know. So how would you explain the random sampling of DL flights that depart? Why does the LAS, or LAX flight get to leave, but say, the MCO flight needs to remain grounded?
 
AAR90
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Snowstorms And Flight Operations

Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:58 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 1):
DL probably canceled for operational purposes and because they have such a huge operation out of MSP, preemptively canceled the majority of their flights.

If you were the decision-maker at an airline with a large hub operation about to be impacted by significant weather, what would you do? Before begining your considerations just remember that the gov't fines the airline $27,500/passenger for each and every ground delay over 3 hours. For my aircft that's $4.4 MILLION in fines even if it is the FAA that creates the delay.

Oh yes, and don't forget that the passengers won't see any of that fine money either.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6789
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Snowstorms And Flight Operations

Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:01 pm

Delta is looking at today, tomorrow and the next couple of days. By preemptively canceling operations they are able to better plan their recovery.

If only half their aircraft made it in because the captains decided it was safer to go to an alternate, Delta would be scrambling to figure out what flights to cover and which to cancel. Of course, there would be numerous downline disruptions. All this is avoided by canceling the bulk of operations and started from scratch the next day.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2825
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: Snowstorms And Flight Operations

Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:10 am

There is another good thread about groundstops that asks the same question about CO in EWR a couple days ago. Take a look there as a lot of the info is applicable.
DMI
 
cbphoto
Posts: 1122
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:23 am

RE: Snowstorms And Flight Operations

Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:11 am

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 3):
If you were the decision-maker at an airline with a large hub operation about to be impacted by significant weather, what would you do? Before begining your considerations just remember that the gov't fines the airline $27,500/passenger for each and every ground delay over 3 hours. For my aircft that's $4.4 MILLION in fines even if it is the FAA that creates the delay.

Oh yes, and don't forget that the passengers won't see any of that fine money either.

Ahh..finally found the thread again! But why are you attacking me with your questions? I know what the airlines have to go through with the fines, I am the one that has to coordinate this stuff with my dispatcher. He was asking why Sun Country is flying in, and Delta has canceled, and I was merely saying Delta has a much larger operation in MSP and preemptively canceled most of the flights for that day! Sheesh..
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6789
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Snowstorms And Flight Operations

Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:47 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 6):
He was asking why Sun Country is flying in, and Delta has canceled, and I was merely saying Delta has a much larger operation in MSP and preemptively canceled most of the flights for that day! Sheesh..

Again, because Sun Country's one (?) inbound won't impact their overall network as much as a hit and miss pattern that would result from Delta's large operation.

Just pack it in for the day and be ready to recover the next day.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.

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