United Airline
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Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:53 am

In Europe/Asia/Australasia there are plenty of pilots without degrees. Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, Qantas etc…..

What about the US? Any pilots without degrees? Pretty rare?
 
bobnwa
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:08 pm

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
What about the US? Any pilots without degrees? Pretty rare?


If you mean a degree from an accredited four year university, then plenty of pilots in the world including the US do not have degrees.
 
Cessna172RG
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:25 pm

I've got a license...and no degree. I went to college and all, just didn't finish for various reasons. Oh, but I don't fly for an airline, though. But I do have a license.
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n6238p
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:41 pm

From my experience looking at minimums posted, most regional's do not require a degree but most mainline carriers do.
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tb727
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:59 pm

The only reason I got a 4 year degree is because I knew, somewhere down the line, some major would want to see that line on my resume. That's it. I've said it for years, it's a big scam that you "have" to go to college to get a "good" job as a pilot. I don't care what school you want to, can you fly the plane safely.
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mayor
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:07 pm

My son-in-law now flies for Omni and has no degree. Before that he had flown for Skywest, Jetblue and Lynx.
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burnsie28
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:06 pm

Most major carriers now are requiring a 4 year degree.
 
airtran737
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:47 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 5):



My son-in-law now flies for Omni and has no degree. Before that he had flown for Skywest, Jetblue and Lynx.

Why isn't he at jetBlue anymore? You don't leave a place like that to go to an airline like Omni.
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PGNCS
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:50 pm

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 6):
Most major carriers now are requiring a 4 year degree.

Burnsie is right, and even if they don't require it you need one to be competitive. In years past more people got hired without them, but it's rare at a US major carrier today. Interestingly, some regional airlines with flowthrough agreements with a major partner don't require them, so a few non-degreed pilots are coming to majors that way.
 
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mayor
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:52 pm

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 7):
Why isn't he at jetBlue anymore? You don't leave a place like that to go to an airline like Omni.

He didn't feel like he got treated as promised at JetBlue. They promised that there would be a pilots domicile at SLC and then backed out.....he got stuck at JFK. Anyway, after JetBlue, he went to Lynx, didn't like that and then went corporate for a few years. Now he'll be flying DC-10s for Omni, with a good chance for left seat, soon and then on to the 777s when they get them.
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mffoda
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:55 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 9):
Now he'll be flying DC-10s for Omni, with a good chance for left seat, soon and then on to the 777s when they get them.

Has Omni ordered the 777 yet?

Regards
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DashTrash
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:11 am

Plenty of pilots at the regionals without degrees. A few at the majors without degrees who were hired in the past or through means other than off the street. Don't know about other fracs, but NetJets requires a 4 year degree.
 
kiffy
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:22 am

Quoting mffoda (Reply 10):
Has Omni ordered the 777 yet?

Boeing 777-200ER deliveries scheduled for this or next month. (April/May 2011)
 
maxpower1954
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:31 am

In the tight pilot market of the 1970s, not only was a four year degree required but you needed a Masters to be competitive.
90% of the new hires in 1977 at the majors had a Masters degree. It was a way of winowing down the many thousands of applicants for relatively few jobs.
 
kiffy
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:46 am

I’m in college right now, my second semester. When I graduate I would like to become a pilot. I am majoring in marine biology/geology although I’m not sure I should stick with this major since I cannot really see the connection to aviation. Should I be majoring in something more aviation related or does that matter?
 
Max Q
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:53 am

I do not have a degree.


It's probably a good idea to get one however I managed to get to the left seat of the 75 / 67 with a major Airline without it !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
Mir
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:10 am

Quoting kiffy (Reply 14):
I’m in college right now, my second semester. When I graduate I would like to become a pilot. I am majoring in marine biology/geology although I’m not sure I should stick with this major since I cannot really see the connection to aviation. Should I be majoring in something more aviation related or does that matter?

If you like marine biology/geology, stick with it. That way, you'll have a good degree should you find yourself on furlough from the airlines, and you might just find yourself a cool flying opportunity that doesn't involve the airlines at all (like flying marine research teams around in a seaplane - showing up with a marine biology degree would set you apart from everyone else right away, and not in the bad way).

-Mir
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q120
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:15 am

A pilots degree is more about the flight hours... this is still a profession where you do not require post secondary education. If you have the hours, you will have the job.
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United Airline
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:31 am

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 1):
If you mean a degree from an accredited four year university, then plenty of pilots in the world including the US do not have degrees.

Yes

Quoting Cessna172RG (Reply 2):
I've got a license...and no degree. I went to college and all, just didn't finish for various reasons. Oh, but I don't fly for an airline, though. But I do have a license.

I see. So is it possible to join a US airline as a pilot without a degree? I suppose so if one has the experience and the relevant licenses.

Most Americans are University graduates I know especially the under 30 age group.
 
fuelfool
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:49 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 18):
Most Americans are University graduates I know especially the under 30 age group.

Most pilots in that age group, more than likely. In general, its not much more that 50/50, maybe less.
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navion1217
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:24 am

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 13):
In the tight pilot market of the 1970s, not only was a four year degree required but you needed a Masters to be competitive.
90% of the new hires in 1977 at the majors had a Masters degree. It was a way of winowing down the many thousands of applicants for relatively few jobs.

Quite different than 1966 when my dad was hired by Pan Am. He was a few courses short of his degree (which would have been history, not much to do with aviation) but he had 400 hours and a commercial ticket with a brand new instrument rating. (I guess the end of a war changes the supply and demand curves for a lot of things).

I know this is going off topic, but Dad didn't even have a multi-engine rating when he was hired. When he was upgraded from navigator/relief copilot to first officer he got his 707 type rating. When the examiner took his old license to write his temporary, he gave him his 707 rating, ATP, and multi-engine rating at the same time. I bet Dad had a beer or two that night!
 
413X3
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:40 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 18):
Most Americans are University graduates I know especially the under 30 age group.

Back in reality, Americans with degrees is around 30% of the population.
 
BCEaglesCO757
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:45 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 15):
I do not have a degree.


It's probably a good idea to get one however I managed to get to the left seat of the 75 / 67 with a major Airline without it !

==============

Are you ex-military ? I'm guessing -and this is only my guess or opinion- and that is that those with a service background ,especially combat would be those flying without a degree.

Either way, in line with what someone said earlier. I just want a guy/girl who is competent and knows how to fly the plane.
 
United Airline
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:03 am

So there are still lots of youngsters without degrees flying for US airlines! Cool

I believe university education has little to do with flying. I believe one can be a good pilot with the relevant licenses/flying hours

Quoting 413X3 (Reply 21):
Back in reality, Americans with degrees is around 30% of the population.

REALLY? I thought 90% Americans are degree holders. What about young people?
 
B777LRF
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:21 am

Have several friends, close and less so, flying around the US for airlines such as American, ASTAR, Kalitta and United. Not one of them have a degree, a point most of them have pointed to as being utterly irrelevant to the task of poling several hundred tons of aircraft around the skies. Being a ATPL holder myself, and also living blissfully without a degree, I'd tend to agree.
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AirNZ
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:03 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
In Europe/Asia/Australasia there are plenty of pilots without degrees. Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, Qantas etc…..

What about the US? Any pilots without degrees? Pretty rare?

.
What exactly do you mean though......a university Degree as recognised as such by all countries, or the 'college degree' which is worthless (as a Degree) outside the US? Indeed, may I ask what exactly is the point/relevance of the question as such is not a requirement to be a pilot?
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United Airline
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:30 am

Any recognized degree I mean.

Just wanna know about US pilots
 
jimbobjoe
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:40 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 23):
REALLY? I thought 90% Americans are degree holders. What about young people?

Right about the same, 30%.
 
AirNZ
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:50 am

Quoting 413X3 (Reply 21):
Back in reality, Americans with degrees is around 30% of the population.

But, in reality, is that 30% of the population with universally regognised university Degrees, or what Americans see/accept as Degrees (as in College Degrees)........there is a very substantial difference between the two?
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vfw614
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:52 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 26):
Any recognized degree I mean.

So you refer to a bachelor's degree, awarded by a US-style college, as a minimum? Or are there any other "recognized degrees" that require less than studies at college?

As we are just at it, do the above answers refer to a college degree or a university degree (i.e. a degree awarded after two cycles of tertiary education)?
 
YokoTsuno
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:38 pm

Quoting tb727 (Reply 4):
I don't care what school you want to, can you fly the plane safely.
Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 22):
Either way, in line with what someone said earlier. I just want a guy/girl who is competent and knows how to fly the plane.

In fact this is true for every profession. In the real world however, it doesn't work that way. Most people would generally accept that a pilot does not have a degree, that is however not the case for medical professions.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 25):
What exactly do you mean though......a university Degree as recognised as such by all countries
Quoting United Airline (Reply 26):
Any recognized degree I mean.

I didn't know that there was such a thing as a universally recognised degree. Qualifications are general only recognised within a certain "political" area. If you believe that graduating from Harvard law school allows you practise law in the entire world you'd be in for a surprise.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 29):
So you refer to a bachelor's degree, awarded by a US-style college,

I was told that in certain countries pilot training itself leads to a (3-year) degree as a special stream within aeronautical engineering studies.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:01 pm

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 30):
Most people would generally accept that a pilot does not have a degree, that is however not the case for medical professions.

But that's because there isn't a degree in piloting to begin with ! Or is there ? Pilots definitely need qualifications, it just happens that it has nothing to do with college/university. By the way, for doctors, things are quite strange in the US I find, you need a 4 year degree in whatever to begin studying medical stuff ! In France you start right after high school (selection is very harsh, however, so after only one year or two at most you pretty much know if you'll make it or not, if not you go study something else). And it's free, of course.

A corollary question for pilots with or without a degree : what do you plan to do after your pilot career, if too young to retire from working (that can even happen before the age limit, for medical reasons) ? Could a degree also be useful then ?
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AirNZ
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:46 pm

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 30):
I didn't know that there was such a thing as a universally recognised degree. Qualifications are general only recognised within a certain "political" area. If you believe that graduating from Harvard law school allows you practise law in the entire world you'd be in for a surprise.

Then you'd be quite mistaken, and also misunderstanding my comment. By a 'universally recognised degree' I was referring to that obtained from an acredited university, as opposed to the American 'college degree' which is not recognised as such outside the US. To use your own example, I am not stating that a Harvard law degree 'automatically' allows you to practice law anywhere (bad example to use by the way as such is a different argument altogether).......but it is recognised as a law degree throughout the world (therefore obviously what I was referring to as universally recognised)

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 29):
So you refer to a bachelor's degree, awarded by a US-style college, as a minimum? Or are there any other "recognized degrees" that require less than studies at college?

As we are just at it, do the above answers refer to a college degree or a university degree (i.e. a degree awarded after two cycles of tertiary education)?

This is exactly what I've been asking. However, a Batchelors (BSc or BA) Degree is awarded by a university after a minimum of four years of study.......it is most certainly not awarded by a US 'college'.

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 30):
Most people would generally accept that a pilot does not have a degree, that is however not the case for medical professions.

But you're talking about two entirely and vastly different things there! Again, it begs what I originally asked........what is the relevance or point of the question/topic in the first place????
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mayor
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:52 pm

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 32):
it is most certainly not awarded by a US 'college'.

In terms of education, what do you consider the difference, if any, between a university and a 4 year college? As far as I know, all 4 year colleges offer batchelors degrees in one field or another.
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C767P
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:58 pm

Quoting kiffy (Reply 14):
I am majoring in marine biology/geology although I’m not sure I should stick with this major since I cannot really see the connection to aviation. Should I be majoring in something more aviation related or does that matter?

If you like marine biology/geology, stick with it. I did not get a degree in aviation because I wanted to have a backup in case I couldnt find a job or incase for some reason I was no longer able to hold a medical. Some of the aviation degrees reall limit what you can do if you don't fly.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:04 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 23):
REALLY? I thought 90% Americans are degree holders. What about young people?


A very large number of high school students go to college. The school were I teach has a college acceptance rate at around 85% We have no idea how many ever graduate from a college or university; we think it is around 35%. Back when I earned my under grad degree the freshman class was huge, but there were far fewer that made it to graduation. I bet only 25% of that freshman class ever graduated from anywhere. A lot of high schools boast of high college acceptance rates and that leads people to think that all these young people graduate.

I know more people in the 18-30 age group that did not graduate from college/university than who did.

It really depends on where you live. I grew up in a upper middle class part of suburban St. Louis, Missouri and everyone I knew had a parent or parents that graduated from college. Nearly 98% of my high school class went to college. Where I live today, Taylor, Michigan, only 4% of the population is a college graduate. I used to teach school in Detroit and I have had more students convicted of murder than graduated from traditional college or university.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 28):
But, in reality, is that 30% of the population with universally regognised university Degrees, or what Americans see/accept as Degrees (as in College Degrees)........there is a very substantial difference between the two


What do you mean? You either have a degree from a accredited institution or you do not. A certificate program is not a degree. Certificate programs are great, especially in technical areas, but they are not degrees and schools do not grant them as such.

Quoting navion1217 (Reply 20):
Quite different than 1966 when my dad was hired by Pan Am. He was a few courses short of his degree (which would have been history, not much to do with aviation) but he had 400 hours and a commercial ticket with a brand new instrument rating. (I guess the end of a war changes the supply and demand curves for a lot of things).


I know a guy with the opposite. He has a degree in some type of aviation (went to the same University I did my undergrad at). The guy hasn't touched a plane since graduating (aside from being a fare paying passenger) and is the manager of a gas station.
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FlyFL
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:12 pm

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 32):
Then you'd be quite mistaken, and also misunderstanding my comment. By a 'universally recognised degree' I was referring to that obtained from an acredited university, as opposed to the American 'college degree' which is not recognised as such outside the US.

I think that there is a misunderstanding here and it really comes down to semantics. In the United States, schools that offer 4 year degrees (BA or BS) are referred to as either Colleges OR Universities. Usually the difference being that Universities offer post-graduate studies in additon to undergraduate degrees. This is not universal though, as I know of several schools that title themselvs as Colleges that do offer post-graduate degrees. Additionally, large Universities will often be divided into schools. For instance, I graduated from the University of West Georgia, and from the Richards College of Business. My degree says both.

It is my understanding that other countries often use the term "College" to refer to an intermedite institution, after secondary education, but before "University." In the US, this type of institution, awarding only 2 year degrees would likely be referred to as a Community College, or Junior College.
 
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ADent
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:26 pm

Here is a nice infographic showing US degrees by county: http://chronicle.com/article/Adults-With-College-Degrees-in/125995/ .


According to that 27.5% of the US adult population have a college degree.

[Edited 2011-04-13 08:29:00]
 
mffoda
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:27 pm

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 32):
Then you'd be quite mistaken, and also misunderstanding my comment. By a 'universally recognised degree' I was referring to that obtained from an acredited university, as opposed to the American 'college degree' which is not recognised as such outside the US. To use your own example, I am not stating that a Harvard law degree 'automatically' allows you to practice law anywhere (bad example to use by the way as such is a different argument altogether).......but it is recognised as a law degree throughout the world (therefore obviously what I was referring to as universally recognised)



For anyone who is interested, Wiki has a pretty good read on how the use of College & University applies to different Countries...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College
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flyinghippo
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:18 pm

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 22):
Quoting Max Q (Reply 15):
I do not have a degree.


It's probably a good idea to get one however I managed to get to the left seat of the 75 / 67 with a major Airline without it !

==============

Are you ex-military ? I'm guessing -and this is only my guess or opinion- and that is that those with a service background ,especially combat would be those flying without a degree.

Either way, in line with what someone said earlier. I just want a guy/girl who is competent and knows how to fly the plane.

An US Air Force Pilot is an officer, which requires a 4 year degree (in 99% of the cases). So if MaxQ does not have a 4 year degree, I'd assume he was not a pilot in the US Air Force or US Navy. You could be a pilot in the US Army without a 4 year degree though (as a Warrant Officer)
 
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falstaff
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:10 pm

Quoting FlyFL (Reply 36):
Additionally, large Universities will often be divided into schools. For instance, I graduated from the University of West Georgia, and from the Richards College of Business.


A university is made up of two or more colleges. You can have a four year degree and post graduate degree awarded by a college or a University.

My BS degree is from Southern Illinois University's College of Applied Science.

I have an AS from Central Missouri State University's College of Technology (now the University of Central Missouri), but at one time it was called Central Missouri State Teachers College and only was a college of education. Since it only had one college at that time it could not be called a University.
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PGNCS
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:16 pm

Quoting kiffy (Reply 14):
I’m in college right now, my second semester. When I graduate I would like to become a pilot. I am majoring in marine biology/geology although I’m not sure I should stick with this major since I cannot really see the connection to aviation. Should I be majoring in something more aviation related or does that matter?

I have a science degree and it came in handy when I got furloughed from my airline job. You definitely don't need a more aviation-focused degree!

Quoting Max Q (Reply 15):
I do not have a degree.


It's probably a good idea to get one however I managed to get to the left seat of the 75 / 67 with a major Airline without it !

That's great, you are an obviously very sharp guy. I think your advice is sound though, as I am sure you would be the first to acknowledge that you are in a distinct minority as a US major airline captain without one.

Quoting q120 (Reply 17):
A pilots degree is more about the flight hours... this is still a profession where you do not require post secondary education. If you have the hours, you will have the job.

Not. I have done hiring for a major airline and hours are one of many things we look for. A 4-year degree is another.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 18):
So is it possible to join a US airline as a pilot without a degree? I suppose so if one has the experience and the relevant licenses.

It is possible, but it is unlikely to be hired today at a US major airline without an accredited 4-year degree.

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 22):
Are you ex-military ? I'm guessing -and this is only my guess or opinion- and that is that those with a service background ,especially combat would be those flying without a degree.

I don't know when he was in the military, but with some exceptions in the Army, the US armed forces requires 4-year degrees for all their pilots. That was not always the case, but I doubt Max Q is that old.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 23):
Quoting 413X3 (Reply 21):
Back in reality, Americans with degrees is around 30% of the population.

REALLY? I thought 90% Americans are degree holders. What about young people?

There is no way 90% of adult Americans hold 4-year degrees.

Quoting jimbobjoe (Reply 27):
Quoting United Airline (Reply 23):
REALLY? I thought 90% Americans are degree holders. What about young people?

Right about the same, 30%.

That sounds reasonable.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 28):
Quoting 413X3 (Reply 21):
Back in reality, Americans with degrees is around 30% of the population.

But, in reality, is that 30% of the population with universally regognised university Degrees, or what Americans see/accept as Degrees (as in College Degrees)........there is a very substantial difference between the two?

What? Either you have a 4-year degree from an accredited institution or your don't. That's what the US major airlines want. Degrees from many international institutions are accepted.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 29):
Quoting United Airline (Reply 26):
Any recognized degree I mean.

So you refer to a bachelor's degree, awarded by a US-style college, as a minimum? Or are there any other "recognized degrees" that require less than studies at college?

As we are just at it, do the above answers refer to a college degree or a university degree (i.e. a degree awarded after two cycles of tertiary education)?

What the US major airlines are looking for is a 4-year degree from an accredited institution. Like others have said elsewhere, it is exceedingly rare for a pilot to get hired by a US major airline without one.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 31):
Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 30):
Most people would generally accept that a pilot does not have a degree, that is however not the case for medical professions.

But that's because there isn't a degree in piloting to begin with ! Or is there ? Pilots definitely need qualifications, it just happens that it has nothing to do with college/university. By the way, for doctors, things are quite strange in the US I find, you need a 4 year degree in whatever to begin studying medical stuff ! In France you start right after high school (selection is very harsh, however, so after only one year or two at most you pretty much know if you'll make it or not, if not you go study something else). And it's free, of course.

There are definitely professional aviation degrees available, though they are not necessarily a good idea, as that limits your ability to be hired in another field if (when) your airline career doesn't go smoothly.

And it's not free, it's built into your taxes.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 32):
Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 30):
I didn't know that there was such a thing as a universally recognised degree. Qualifications are general only recognised within a certain "political" area. If you believe that graduating from Harvard law school allows you practise law in the entire world you'd be in for a surprise.

Then you'd be quite mistaken, and also misunderstanding my comment. By a 'universally recognised degree' I was referring to that obtained from an acredited university, as opposed to the American 'college degree' which is not recognised as such outside the US. To use your own example, I am not stating that a Harvard law degree 'automatically' allows you to practice law anywhere (bad example to use by the way as such is a different argument altogether).......but it is recognised as a law degree throughout the world (therefore obviously what I was referring to as universally recognised)

I am unclear on this after reading all your posts in this thread, but to clarify, an accredited "college" or "university" in the US can confer a 4-year (normally BA or BS) degree, and that is what the US major airlines want. Some also have 2 year degrees and some also have post graduate degrees. Airlines are not hung up on nomenclature or what school you went to (in general,) they just want you to have a legitimate 4-year degree from somewhere.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 32):
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 29):
So you refer to a bachelor's degree, awarded by a US-style college, as a minimum? Or are there any other "recognized degrees" that require less than studies at college?

As we are just at it, do the above answers refer to a college degree or a university degree (i.e. a degree awarded after two cycles of tertiary education)?

This is exactly what I've been asking. However, a Batchelors (BSc or BA) Degree is awarded by a university after a minimum of four years of study.......it is most certainly not awarded by a US 'college'.

It most certainly can be.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 32):
Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 30):
Most people would generally accept that a pilot does not have a degree, that is however not the case for medical professions.

But you're talking about two entirely and vastly different things there! Again, it begs what I originally asked........what is the relevance or point of the question/topic in the first place????

The relevance is that the OP wanted to know how common was it for pilots in the US to not have a college degree. The answer is that for the major airlines it's uncommon, and it's extremely difficult to be hired today without one at a major.

Quoting mayor (Reply 33):
Quoting AirNZ (Reply 32):
it is most certainly not awarded by a US 'college'.

In terms of education, what do you consider the difference, if any, between a university and a 4 year college? As far as I know, all 4 year colleges offer batchelors degrees in one field or another.

   Spot on, mayor.

Quoting C767P (Reply 34):
Quoting kiffy (Reply 14):
I am majoring in marine biology/geology although I’m not sure I should stick with this major since I cannot really see the connection to aviation. Should I be majoring in something more aviation related or does that matter?

If you like marine biology/geology, stick with it. I did not get a degree in aviation because I wanted to have a backup in case I couldnt find a job or incase for some reason I was no longer able to hold a medical. Some of the aviation degrees reall limit what you can do if you don't fly.

   Excellent advice!

Quoting falstaff (Reply 35):
Quoting AirNZ (Reply 28):
But, in reality, is that 30% of the population with universally regognised university Degrees, or what Americans see/accept as Degrees (as in College Degrees)........there is a very substantial difference between the two


What do you mean? You either have a degree from a accredited institution or you do not. A certificate program is not a degree. Certificate programs are great, especially in technical areas, but they are not degrees and schools do not grant them as such.

   Nor do airlines accept them as such.

Quoting FlyFL (Reply 36):
Quoting AirNZ (Reply 32):
Then you'd be quite mistaken, and also misunderstanding my comment. By a 'universally recognised degree' I was referring to that obtained from an acredited university, as opposed to the American 'college degree' which is not recognised as such outside the US.

I think that there is a misunderstanding here and it really comes down to semantics. In the United States, schools that offer 4 year degrees (BA or BS) are referred to as either Colleges OR Universities. Usually the difference being that Universities offer post-graduate studies in additon to undergraduate degrees. This is not universal though, as I know of several schools that title themselvs as Colleges that do offer post-graduate degrees. Additionally, large Universities will often be divided into schools. For instance, I graduated from the University of West Georgia, and from the Richards College of Business. My degree says both.

  

Quoting ADent (Reply 37):
According to that 27.5% of the US adult population have a college degree.

That sounds perfectly reasonable. Thank your for posting the information.

Quoting flyinghippo (Reply 39):
Are you ex-military ? I'm guessing -and this is only my guess or opinion- and that is that those with a service background ,especially combat would be those flying without a degree.

Either way, in line with what someone said earlier. I just want a guy/girl who is competent and knows how to fly the plane.

An US Air Force Pilot is an officer, which requires a 4 year degree (in 99% of the cases). So if MaxQ does not have a 4 year degree, I'd assume he was not a pilot in the US Air Force or US Navy. You could be a pilot in the US Army without a 4 year degree though (as a Warrant Officer)

  
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:56 pm

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 41):
The relevance is that the OP wanted to know how common was it for pilots in the US to not have a college degree. The answer is that for the major airlines it's uncommon, and it's extremely difficult to be hired today without one at a major.

This is true..Like I believe you said in an earlier post most likely you would see a pilot at a major without one if he came in some other way like a regional to major airline flow through agreement for example. When I came to MEM in 1994 I worked with a line mechanic at NW who interviewed for a pilot slot and got one during the hiring in 1995. He became a capt on the DC-9 then was forced back to f/o after 9/11. I believe he is back as a DC-9 capt again now a DL pilot.
 
United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8765
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RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:50 am

Then most Americans are non-degree holders you mean?

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 29):
So you refer to a bachelor's degree, awarded by a US-style college, as a minimum? Or are there any other "recognized degrees" that require less than studies at college?

Bacelor's degree awarded by a college.

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 42):
This is true..Like I believe you said in an earlier post most likely you would see a pilot at a major without one if he came in some other way like a regional to major airline flow through agreement for example. When I came to MEM in 1994 I worked with a line mechanic at NW who interviewed for a pilot slot and got one during the hiring in 1995. He became a capt on the DC-9 then was forced back to f/o after 9/11. I believe he is back as a DC-9 capt again now a DL pilot.

What if he/she has all the flying hours/licenses?

I know plenty of pilots at CX and BA and QF without degrees though.
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:10 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 43):
What if he/she has all the flying hours/licenses?

Well in the case of my friend he did have the hours and does not have a degree..You do not need a degree to fly there are plenty of non degree holders with plenty of flying hours...The point is if you are applying to a major airline from the outside today you can be assured you will most likely not get hired because the competition is too great and there are plenty of degree holders with plenty of hours who would most likely be selected over the non-degree person. My friend was an internal NW employee during a short time frame when they were offering internals an interview. But if he had to apply from the outside he most likely would not have been considered without the degree. He is a great pilot but when you have thousands of applicants with degrees it makes it tough. Supply and demand drives changes in hiring minimums. Thats why you had guys in the 60's hired with 200 hrs or more recent when UAL lost a consent decree a few years back they had to hire more minorities and lowered the requirements for minorities.

[Edited 2011-04-13 22:12:31]
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:21 am

Quoting kiffy (Reply 14):
I’m in college right now, my second semester. When I graduate I would like to become a pilot. I am majoring in marine biology/geology although I’m not sure I should stick with this major since I cannot really see the connection to aviation. Should I be majoring in something more aviation related or does that matter?

I fly with pilots who hold aviation, business, science, finance, biology, and various other bachelor and masters degrees on a regular basis. No airline requires a degree in anything aviation related. Few require one at all.

That being said, study whatever your passions lead you to. You never know when a non-aviation degree will come in handy and it will at some point. The average pilot is furloughed 3 times throughout their career. There is also enough down time when you're only working half a month (I average 16 days off per month) that it can be very lucrative to persue a side job as a contractor doing something else.

Also, it makes for some interesting talk in the cockpit. I really enjoy talking to captains that have done something outside aviation.
DMI
 
Max Q
Posts: 5628
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:03 am

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 22):

Are you ex-military ? I'm guessing -and this is only my guess or opinion- and that is that those with a service background ,especially combat would be those flying without a degree.

Either way, in line with what someone said earlier. I just want a guy/girl who is competent and knows how to fly the plane.

No, I have always been a Civilian Pilot. As far as I know the only Military Pilots that were not required to have degrees were Army Helicopter Pilots. Not sure if that is still the case.


I certainly agree.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
charlienorth
Posts: 1051
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:24 am

RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:24 pm

I knew a pilot that graduated from H.S., learned to fly that summer, went to college for a year, flight instructed in the summer, went back for fall semester and hired on as an Electra second officer on his winter break...a month after his 20th birthday...it was in the mid 60's though.

I knew another that hired in around the same time at NWA, hired in as a B-707 S.O. and at the time the biggest airplane had flown was a C172 3 years he was a 727 Capt...the furthest along educationally he had was 2 years of college. The sheepskin doesn't mean a better pilot just a more competitive candidate.
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:44 am

Quoting charlienorth (Reply 47):
knew another that hired in around the same time at NWA, hired in as a B-707 S.O. and at the time the biggest airplane had flown was a C172 3 years he was a 727 Capt...the furthest along educationally he had was 2 years of college. The sheepskin doesn't mean a better pilot just a more competitive candidate.

Isn't if funny that just a little flying experience got you into a cockpit of an airliner and respect and money the likes of which you do not see today. Must have been nice to fly in the 60's and early 70's.
 
Max Q
Posts: 5628
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Any Pilots In The US Without Degrees?

Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:36 am

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 48):

Isn't if funny that just a little flying experience got you into a cockpit of an airliner and respect and money the likes of which you do not see today. Must have been nice to fly in the 60's and early 70's.

You have that right.


The 60's and 70's truly were the golden age of Aviation for Airline Pilots.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.

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