Luftfahrer
Topic Author
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Brake Temperatures After Landing At London City

Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:28 pm

Hello everyone,

London City (LCY) has a very short runway: only 1508m meters long. Still, fairly sizeable aircraft such as the Embraer E190 or the Airbus A318 are based there and are operated into this particular airport on a daily base. I wondered whether a high amount of braking action was needed in order to achieve a safe deceleration. If so, to what degree does this affect the brake temperature after landing? And are the brakes of aircraft that are operated several times a day into LCY more prone to wear and tear?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmXiwKWU3N4

PS: Those who have insight into E170/E190 operation into LCY, are autobrakes used for landing there? If that is the case, what setting (LO/MED/HI)?

Many thanks!

Marius
'He resembled a pilot, which to a seaman is trustworthiness personified.' Joseph Conrad
 
tdscanuck
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: Brake Temperatures After Landing At London City

Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:36 pm

Quoting Luftfahrer (Thread starter):
I wondered whether a high amount of braking action was needed in order to achieve a safe deceleration.

All other things being equal, yes, you need to brake harder on a shorter runway.

Quoting Luftfahrer (Thread starter):
If so, to what degree does this affect the brake temperature after landing?

There's a direct (nearly linear) relationship between energy absorption and brake temperature. The total amount of energy to be dissipated is a function of just your approach speed and weight, but the proportion that goes into the brakes (vs. amount into reverse thrust and drag devices) will be different. Shorter runways tend to put more into the brakes, leading to higher brake temperatures.

Quoting Luftfahrer (Thread starter):
And are the brakes of aircraft that are operated several times a day into LCY more prone to wear and tear?

If they're steel, probably. Steel brakes wear in proportion to energy absorbed. Carbon brakes shouldn't make much difference, since they wear in proportion to number of applications (one cycle wear is about the same, regardless of how much energy went into the brake on that cycle).

Tom
 
Luftfahrer
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RE: Brake Temperatures After Landing At London City

Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:32 pm

Thanks Tom.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 1):
Shorter runways tend to put more into the brakes, leading to higher brake temperatures.

Would you say that the temperatures rise so much that it becomes a problem, i.e. a longer cool down phase is needed, possibly extending the turnaround time?

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 1):
Steel brakes wear in proportion to energy absorbed. Carbon brakes shouldn't make much difference

Seeing the E-Jets and the Airbus as modern aircraft, can one assume that they are equipped with carbon brakes?

Marius
'He resembled a pilot, which to a seaman is trustworthiness personified.' Joseph Conrad
 
yeelep
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RE: Brake Temperatures After Landing At London City

Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:39 pm

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 2):
Seeing the E-Jets and the Airbus as modern aircraft, can one assume that they are equipped with carbon brakes?

Can't speak for the E-jets or airbus. However the 737NG has had carbon brakes available, as a option, only in the last year or two.

[Edited 2011-04-25 15:42:31]
 
Viscount724
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RE: Brake Temperatures After Landing At London City

Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:04 am

Quoting Luftfahrer (Thread starter):
London City (LCY) has a very short runway: only 1508m meters long. Still, fairly sizeable aircraft such as the Embraer E190 or the Airbus A318 are based there and are operated into this particular airport

Dozens of even larger aircraft, up to 737-800 size, operate daily to/from Rio de Janeiro's city-center Santos Dumont airport where the longest runway is even shorter (1323m, 4341 ft) than at LCY and ends in water at both ends. Brakes and reverse thrust must also get heavy use there.


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Video of Gol 737-700 landing at SDU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UMgZ61WayA&NR=1

Longer video of TAM A319 approach/landing. Go to about the 3:15 mark for the landing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRWGJhHkEXY
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Brake Temperatures After Landing At London City

Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:09 am

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 2):
Would you say that the temperatures rise so much that it becomes a problem, i.e. a longer cool down phase is needed, possibly extending the turnaround time?

It all depends on landing weight...for the types of short/medium-haul jets that go in and out of there, that are built for fast turns and aren't tremendously heavy, I wouldn't expect it to be a big problem.

But yes, you do need to monitor brake energy and that can push up your turn time.

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 2):
Seeing the E-Jets and the Airbus as modern aircraft, can one assume that they are equipped with carbon brakes?

Usually, yes. Some stuff with a long derivative history like the 737NG can still be found with steel.

Tom.
 
Luftfahrer
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RE: Brake Temperatures After Landing At London City

Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:17 pm

Thanks everyone!

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):

I totally forgot about SDU! Of course, my question can be considered extended to that airport. The only advantage I see might be that the aircraft don't come in as steep as they do in LCY (5,5° angle) and that they have a wider runway available.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 5):
Usually, yes.

I guess it would be a worthwhile investment for carriers based at LCY (read: BA CityFlyer) to have their aircraft equipped with carbon brakes.

Marius
'He resembled a pilot, which to a seaman is trustworthiness personified.' Joseph Conrad
 
oldtimer
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RE: Brake Temperatures After Landing At London City

Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:21 pm

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 6):
I guess it would be a worthwhile investment for carriers based at LCY (read: BA CityFlyer) to have their aircraft equipped with carbon brakes.

BAe146/Avro RJ had carbon brakes from the early days, those that were doing stol landings were also fitted with brake fans, to assist with brake cooling for faster turnrounds
As a further point of interest, Concorde also had carbon brakes.
I assume the A318 and E190 would also have carbon brakes as they are better than steel for harsh application, being more efficient the hotter they get.

oldtimer
Oldtimer, I should have known better!
 
71Zulu
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Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:42 am

RE: Brake Temperatures After Landing At London City

Tue May 03, 2011 3:18 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Video of Gol 737-700 landing at SDU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UMgZ...&NR=1

Cool vid and looks like the Autobrakes are set to Max.
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TPAJAY
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RE: Brake Temperatures After Landing At London City

Wed May 04, 2011 6:22 pm

I personally like the approach into KEYW, the field is 4800 Ft in length:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yTefCX3H08
 
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autothrust
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RE: Brake Temperatures After Landing At London City

Wed May 04, 2011 10:55 pm

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 2):
Seeing the E-Jets and the Airbus as modern aircraft, can one assume that they are equipped with carbon brakes?
Quoting oldtimer (Reply 7):
BAe146/Avro RJ had carbon brakes from the early days

The A320 series featured unlike the 737/737NG since 1988 carbon brakes.
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