aklrno
Topic Author
Posts: 1164
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:18 pm

F&R Testing

Thu May 19, 2011 9:58 pm

I read somewhere that the 787 is about to start functional and reliability testing, which is the last obstacle before certification. Although they plan to do ETOPS testing before deliveries start, it could be certified without ETOPS.

As I understand it, F&R testing requires 300 flight hours on new engines, 150 hours on engines that have been used for a while. Is this still correct? Does the testing have to be done all on one aircraft, or can several do it in parallel? At 6 hours/day the 300 hours would take nearly 2 months. I suppose they could fly longer each day. Do they often do that in F&R testing?

On the 777 project I think the type was certified just a few days after F&R testing ended.
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: F&R Testing

Thu May 19, 2011 10:53 pm

From the All Things 787 web site:

ZA102 will be tasked to conduct function and reliability testing and ETOPs testing though it is unknown when those tests will begin.

[Edited 2011-05-19 16:06:35]
 
tdscanuck
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RE: F&R Testing

Fri May 20, 2011 1:11 am

Quoting aklrno (Thread starter):
As I understand it, F&R testing requires 300 flight hours on new engines, 150 hours on engines that have been used for a while. Is this still correct?

In general, yes, although the regulators are free to modify that as they see fit on a case-by-case basis.

Quoting aklrno (Thread starter):
Does the testing have to be done all on one aircraft, or can several do it in parallel?

It doesn't generally have to be all on one aircraft although, as above, regulators are heavily involved in the process of exactly how compliance will be demonstrated.

Quoting aklrno (Thread starter):
At 6 hours/day the 300 hours would take nearly 2 months. I suppose they could fly longer each day. Do they often do that in F&R testing?

They absolutely can fly longer each day...you're talking about an airplane that's designed to spend upwards of 16 hours a day in the air. Historically, F&R testing has had very high flight rates.

Tom.
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: F&R Testing

Fri May 20, 2011 1:36 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 2):
It doesn't generally have to be all on one aircraft although, as above, regulators are heavily involved in the process of exactly how compliance will be demonstrated.


The following seems to differ. It suggest that now that ZA102 has resumed flying, the F & R Testing can begin.

http://nyc787.blogspot.com/
 
aklrno
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:18 pm

RE: F&R Testing

Fri May 20, 2011 4:22 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 3):
The following seems to differ. It suggest that now that ZA102 has resumed flying, the F & R Testing can begin.

Actually, the post referred to does not say ZA102 will do the testing. Maybe it will, but It simply says that it has returned to flight and that F&R testing is next. Maybe it will participate, but the post does not say that ZA102 is required for F&R testing.
 
citationjet
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

RE: F&R Testing

Fri May 20, 2011 3:37 pm

Cessna has done 150 flight hours of F&R testing in 12 days using a single airplane. We flew the Citation Mustang about 12 flight hours per day, on two separate missions. I have participated in various F&R flights on the Citation CJ3, Mustang and CJ4 recently.

FAR 21.35(f)(1)&(2) states:
(1) For aircraft incorporating turbine engines of a type not previously used in a type certificated aircraft, at least 300 hours of operation with a full complement of engines that conform to a type certificate; and
(2) For all other aircraft, at least 150 hours of operation.

[Edited 2011-05-20 08:55:43]
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
474218
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: F&R Testing

Fri May 20, 2011 4:18 pm

Quoting aklrno (Reply 4):
Actually, the post referred to does not say ZA102 will do the testing. Maybe it will, but It simply says that it has returned to flight and that F&R testing is next. Maybe it will participate, but the post does not say that ZA102 is required for F&R testing.


Then something must have changed since this was written:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fli...87-number-nine-gets-its-engin.html
 
474218
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: F&R Testing

Wed May 25, 2011 11:39 pm

Quoting aklrno (Reply 4):
Actually, the post referred to does not say ZA102 will do the testing. Maybe it will, but It simply says that it has returned to flight and that F&R testing is next. Maybe it will participate, but the post does not say that ZA102 is required for F&R testing.


From Aviation Week 25 May 2011:

Commenting at the Boeing Investors conference, Scott Fancher, VP and GM of the 787 program, says the 787 is “approaching entry into service and making great progress.” The ninth 787 aircraft will be used to undertake a combined ETOPS and functionality and reliability tests phase, the latter of which will take place over 300 hours of flight time, he adds. Fancher says there are “4,200 deliverables” in flight test and certification and “we’re down to 150, and of those less than 40 are needed for submittal to the FAA. We’re in the end game.”

Seems ZA102 will be doing a little more than participating?

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