User avatar
EPA001
Topic Author
Posts: 3797
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:13 pm

A350: First With Out-of-autoclave Parts Composites

Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:19 pm

I just came accross this article regarding out of autoclave composite panels first to be used on the A350-XWB. Though the composite panels which this article addresses are rather small, it still is another first in civil aviation. Will this be the next thing in composites? Any thoughts?

Link: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...a350-composite-wing-panels-to.html
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: A350: First With Out-of-autoclave Parts Composites

Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:56 am

Quoting EPA001 (Thread starter):
Will this be the next thing in composites? Any thoughts?

Boeing and Automobili Lamborghini S.p.A. have a lab here in Seattle at the University of Washington working on new composites that do not require autoclaves. One of them is a "powder" that is pressed into shape and is strong in all directions, negating the need to build up alternating layers for resilience.

This new material was first showed on the Lamborghini Sesto Elemento concept and might be used in the new Aventador.
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: A350: First With Out-of-autoclave Parts Composites

Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:39 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Boeing and Automobili Lamborghini S.p.A. have a lab here in Seattle at the University of Washington working on new composites that do not require autoclaves. One of them is a "powder" that is pressed into shape and is strong in all directions, negating the need to build up alternating layers for resilience.

Is this what you're talking about Stitch? http://www.aa.washington.edu/research/structures/vartm.html

As a fellow Seattlite I had no idea this research was taking place at UW. Good info there.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
qfa787380
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:49 pm

RE: A350: First With Out-of-autoclave Parts Composites

Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:29 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Boeing and Automobili Lamborghini S.p.A. have a lab here in Seattle at the University of Washington working on new composites that do not require autoclaves. One of them is a "powder" that is pressed into shape and is strong in all directions, negating the need to build up alternating layers for resilience.

And Boeing are actively looking at this for the 797.
 
astuteman
Posts: 6346
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: A350: First With Out-of-autoclave Parts Composites

Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:28 am

Quoting EPA001 (Thread starter):
I just came accross this article regarding out of autoclave composite panels first to be used on the A350-XWB.

Nice find my friend. Anything that takes steps out of the manufacturing process is a good thing, even if the scale is relatively small (trailing edges) so far.

Quoting QFA787380 (Reply 3):
And Boeing are actively looking at this for the 797.

I should hope so. This technology will already be flying on the Airbus A350 next year.

Rgds
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: A350: First With Out-of-autoclave Parts Composites

Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:23 am

The A350's fuselage and wing panels are still cured in autoclaves, correct?

It's just these smaller parts that are incorporating these new processes.
 
dynamicsguy
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:24 am

RE: A350: First With Out-of-autoclave Parts Composites

Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:14 am

Quoting EPA001 (Thread starter):
it still is another first in civil aviation

The article and the title of this thread is misleading since it refers not to out of autoclave composites, but out of autoclave pre-pregs. The 787's moveable trailing edge (flaps, flaperons, and ailerons) is made up of out-of autoclave composites, but rather than using pre-pregs it is based on resin infusion under vacuum. We don't just make a trailing edge panel out of it, we use it for primary structure, and big structure at that - 400 inch long flaps.
 
GST
Posts: 808
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:27 am

RE: A350: First With Out-of-autoclave Parts Composites

Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:19 am

You can get excellent results curing composites just with a vacuum bag and an oven, no clave necessary. You can't exert as much pressure on the part so consolidation isnt as good (requiring you to apply a vacuum at more regular intervals when laying up a part with a large number of material layers than you could with a clave), but for thinner parts or large awkward shaped parts MUCH less equipment is necessary. Later this morning I will be finishing the layup and putting in the oven some fairly decent sized pieces of a new light aircraft, no autoclave in sight. The material in this instance comes from ACG, the same supplier as Airbus are using cited in the article also.
 
User avatar
autothrust
Posts: 1459
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:54 pm

RE: A350: First With Out-of-autoclave Parts Composites

Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:23 am

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 6):
it is based on resin infusion under vacuum

The A380 has several parts made that way and with pre-pregs. Also the aft pressure bulkhead is manufactured with a (Vacuum Assisted Process) infusion process.(Premium AEROTEC makes it also for the A350XWB and 787)
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: A350: First With Out-of-autoclave Parts Composites

Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:17 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 4):
Quoting EPA001 (Thread starter):
I just came accross this article regarding out of autoclave composite panels first to be used on the A350-XWB.

Nice find my friend.

   But shock horror, I have been making "out of autoclave" composite blocks for my samples for decades. Hope nobody tries to put me out of business with a pesky patent.  Wow!

It does look as if autoclaves are a bit of a pest if you want high production rates. Be interesting to see the relative costs of bashing tin and autoclave formed parts once the information is finally in for running processes. The autoclave equivalent of riveting your shirt to a plane once posited as a response to stress does not bear thinking about.
 
User avatar
EPA001
Topic Author
Posts: 3797
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:13 pm

RE: A350: First With Out-of-autoclave Parts Composites

Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:39 pm

Following up on the issue I found some more interesting links to documents addressing out-of-autoclaves composites. There is already a lot of very interesting and highly detailed information out there. I have just listed 3 links of a quick search on Google which shows there is even a lot more information to be found on the web.  .

Link: http://www.quickstep.com.au/files/do...clave_Processing_via_Quickstep.pdf

Link: http://www.compositesworld.com/artic...oclave-prepregs-hype-or-revolution

Link: http://www.swcompositesgateway.co.uk...ew=article&id=49&Itemid=54

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests