YokoTsuno
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Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:59 am

Is it true that the Concorde was the only large commercial airliner that had an ignition key?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:52 am

Well, even if it had a key, it would not be an ignition key. That implies it controls ignition. Igniting the engines was a bit more complex than that back in the pre-FADEC days.  

Also it's "Concorde", not "The Concorde".
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:53 am

Quoting YokoTsuno (Thread starter):
Is it true that the Concorde was the only large commercial airliner that had an ignition key?

Yes, but the pilots never used it. They used the remote start instead. That way, the air conditioning would be on and the plane would be cool when the pilots were ready to step aboard.
Slower traffic, keep right
 
YokoTsuno
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:23 am

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 2):
Yes, but the pilots never used it. They used the remote start instead
You mean the plane really had a built-in auxiliary power source or sort for starting the turbines? If so where did the energy for this come from?

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
Also it's "Concorde", not "The Concorde".
I am afraid I need grammatical advice here. Several websites refer to "The Concorde", so what's wrong here?
 
vc10
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:43 am

I think they were joking with you

1] Concorde had no built in auxiliary power source to start engines you needed both external electrics and external air to turn the engines. There was aabnormal proceedure where with external air you could start using the aircraft batteries.

2] No there was no ignition key, infact no key of any sort, well not pre 9/11

3] Do not worry you say The Concorde or just Concorde, it is not worth worrying about and be happy

littlevc10
 
474218
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:17 pm

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 3):
I am afraid I need grammatical advice here. Several websites refer to "The Concorde", so what's wrong here?


It a British thing: They say he was taken to "hospital". Not he was taken to "the hospital"?
 
David L
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:44 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 5):
Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 3):
I am afraid I need grammatical advice here. Several websites refer to "The Concorde", so what's wrong here?


It a British thing: They say he was taken to "hospital". Not he was taken to "the hospital"?

Not really, it's more of a Concorde thing. We talk about "the VC-10", "the 747", "the BAC 1-11", etc. It's not grammatically incorrect to call it "the" Concorde but it's just not the done thing within Concorde circles. You could call it respect, reverence, awe, having a special place in people's hearts, etc.  
 
Woof
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:40 pm

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 2):
Yes, but the pilots never used it. They used the remote start instead. That way, the air conditioning would be on and the plane would be cool when the pilots were ready to step aboard.

Is that the remote control that automatically shuts the windows if you leave them open?
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Starlionblue
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:47 pm

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 3):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
Also it's "Concorde", not "The Concorde".
I am afraid I need grammatical advice here. Several websites refer to "The Concorde", so what's wrong here?

As David L says it is custom more than grammar.

Quoting David L (Reply 6):
It's not grammatically incorrect to call it "the" Concorde but it's just not the done thing within Concorde circles. You could call it respect, reverence, awe, having a special place in people's hearts, etc.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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kanban
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:01 pm

so where did the "key" rumor begin?
 
David L
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:52 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 9):
so where did the "key" rumor begin?

Possibly from the list of items many a new maintenance apprentice has been sent to the stores to collect, e.g. propwash, a long weight, a long stand, etc. I've no idea (I could end the sentence right there) where the rumour specific to Concorde came from.
 
MD-90
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:03 pm

Quoting vc10 (Reply 4):
1] Concorde had no built in auxiliary power source to start engines you needed both external electrics and external air to turn the engines. There was aabnormal proceedure where with external air you could start using the aircraft batteries.

Although I think it's interesting that airframes 214 (G-BOAG) and 216 (G-BOAF), the last Concordes built, had the mounting holes and fittings for an APU. The reason why is because these two aircraft, the last two Concordes built, were originally ordered by Iran Air with APUs and they were the last foreign airline to cancel their Concorde order.
 
bohica
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:58 pm

Quoting David L (Reply 10):
Quoting kanban (Reply 9):
so where did the "key" rumor begin?

Possibly from the list of items many a new maintenance apprentice has been sent to the stores to collect,

I was thinking a new flight attendant was sent to Ops by the captain to get the keys for the plane.  
 
David L
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:16 pm

Quoting bohica (Reply 12):
I was thinking a new flight attendant was sent to Ops by the captain to get the keys for the plane.

Possibly but I'm sure that story's been told here by a mechanic or two.
 
26point2
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:09 am

Quoting David L (Reply 10):
Possibly from the list of items many a new maintenance apprentice has been sent to the stores to collect, e.g. propwash, a long weight, a long stand, etc. I've no idea (I could end the sentence right there) where the rumour specific to Concorde came from.

..and will ya pick up some flight line too?
 
Viscount724
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:58 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
Also it's "Concorde", not "The Concorde".

What's the problem with "the"? Seems to make more grammatical sense in English.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:30 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
Also it's "Concorde", not "The Concorde".

What's the problem with "the"? Seems to make more grammatical sense in English.

As mentioned, it is tradition to omit "the" in the case of Concorde.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
LimaNiner
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:36 am

Quoting David L (Reply 6):
It's not grammatically incorrect to call it "the" Concorde but it's just not the done thing within Concorde circles. You could call it respect, reverence, awe, having a special place in people's hearts, etc.

There's a great quote towards the end of the movie "The Good Shepherd":

"Someone asked me why we say 'CIA' and not 'the CIA'? Why do we say 'God', and not 'the God'?"
 
spencer
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:58 pm

Quoting limaniner (Reply 17):
Why do we say 'God', and not 'the God'?"

Getting O/T here but isn't God like a name? Put it this way, replace God with Jesus. Of course you wouldn't say the Jesus!
It's the Concorde, or it's just Concorde. Whatever way fits the sentence the best ... is best!
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vikkyvik
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:48 pm

Quoting spencer (Reply 18):
Getting O/T here but isn't God like a name? Put it this way, replace God with Jesus. Of course you wouldn't say the Jesus!

I actually assumed that was the case with (the) Concorde, too - that it's a proper name.

~The Vik
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rjsampson
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:44 am

I'm sorry, but "THE CONCORDE" is just fine. Calling it "Concorde" is strictly a marketing tactic that was developed by Aérospatiale-BAC. Companies do that sort of thing all the time.

Apple insists on it, but no one pays attention. In their marketing and manuals, they ALWAYS omit "the" from iPod.

No one cares though.

And in the States, at least, "the Concorde" is just fine. In fact, talking to not-aviation types and NOT using "the" would come across as odd.
 
wn700driver
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:39 am

Quoting David L (Reply 10):
Possibly from the list of items many a new maintenance apprentice has been sent to the stores to collect, e.g. propwash, a long weight, a long stand, etc. I've no idea (I could end the sentence right there) where the rumour s

Lol, reminds me of a time I sent a guy off to pick up twenty yards of Flight Line. Well, about ten minutes later he came back with a bucket filled with valve stem caps, a used PRC Tube, some Canadian metal currency, two old pair of socks and a banana peel. No $h*t.

Told me, and I quote, "Parts says you'll know what to do with it."

This was the start of a prank volley that ran about three years. Ah, good old days,   ...
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
comorin
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:48 pm

Quoting RJSampson (Reply 20):
'm sorry, but "THE CONCORDE" is just fine. Calling it "Concorde" is strictly a marketing tactic that was developed by Aérospatiale-BAC. Companies do that sort of thing all the time.

Apple insists on it, but no one pays attention. In their marketing and manuals, they ALWAYS omit "the" from iPod.

No one cares though.

And in the States, at least, "the Concorde" is just fine. In fact, talking to not-aviation types and NOT using "the" would come across as odd.

On A.NET, saying 'The Concorde' is like flying on QUANTAS...
 
DashTrash
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:45 pm

It's an airplane...

It makes noise, burns gas, and flies. Call it whatever you want...
 
vc10
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:30 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 23):
It's an airplane...

Oh no DashTrash now you have opened up another can of worms because is it now

An AEROplane or is it An AIRplane

littlevc10   
 
Woof
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:22 pm

Quoting vc10 (Reply 24):
An AEROplane or is it An AIRplane

It is either, but collectively they are NEVER aircrafts.
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runner13
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:11 am

Ahh pranking the newbies. My first day on the ramp, they tried to get me to get a lav air sample. I was an aviation student and knew better. But one day we had this girl that was at the ticket counter for some time and wanted to transfer to the ramp. So she tried it out one day, and I told her we needed a APU air sample. It was a CRJ200 so it would be easy. So she's out there with a trash bag behind the apu for 5 mins. We were all dying laughing. I wish I had a picture of it. Not really a prank but I used to marshall planes in and wing walk with the big ramp cones. This skinny plastic ones with the rubber on the bottom that you could take off. Everyone always got a laugh out of it. Then my station manager saw me. He chuckled then told me not to do it anymore.
 
bond007
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:42 pm

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 2):
Yes, but the pilots never used it. They used the remote start instead. That way, the air conditioning would be on and the plane would be cool when the pilots were ready to step aboard.

Actually, the last few years they converted them over to keyless entry. As long as the pilot had the key in his pocket or flight bag, he could open the doors and press the 'Start" button.

For the doors, the Air France aircraft worked such that if you pressed the button on the keyfob once, it just opened the cockpit door, and twice, all the doors and exits were unlocked/unarmed.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
YokoTsuno
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:57 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 27):
Actually, the last few years they converted them over to keyless entry. As long as the pilot had the key in his pocket or flight bag, he could open the doors and press the 'Start" button.

For the doors, the Air France aircraft worked such that if you pressed the button on the keyfob once, it just opened the cockpit door, and twice, all the doors and exits were unlocked/unarmed.

     

One can only imagine what would happen if the pilot accidentally had his wife's B757 keyfob parked next to his Concorde, in his pocket. I must say, I am not doing bad with my question here. 2400 views, definitely one of the better threads. 
 
Viscount724
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:57 pm

Quoting Woof (Reply 25):
Quoting vc10 (Reply 24):
An AEROplane or is it An AIRplane

It is either, but collectively they are NEVER aircrafts.

Probably the most common error on A.net, especially by non-native English speakers, who no doubt assume that since you have one airplane and two airplanes, you also have one aircraft and two aircrafts. Just one of the many inconsistencies in English. I've also seen "aircrafts" used fairly often in websites of airlines from non-English speaking countries.
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:56 pm

Quoting RJSampson (Reply 20):
I'm sorry, but "THE CONCORDE" is just fine. Calling it "Concorde" is strictly a marketing tactic that was developed by Aérospatiale-BAC. Companies do that sort of thing all the time.

Apple insists on it, but no one pays attention. In their marketing and manuals, they ALWAYS omit "the" from iPod.

No one cares though.

And in the States, at least, "the Concorde" is just fine. In fact, talking to not-aviation types and NOT using "the" would come across as odd.

Try it with any other aircraft name. As in "I'm flying to New York on the 747". It's not grammatically correct. "I'm flying to New York on Concorde" is more correct. "The" is superfluous. It did not originate with maketing hype, though BA certainly used "Concorde", with no definite or indefinite article, to great effect.

"The Concorde" implies there was only one.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
bond007
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RE: Did The Concorde Really Have An Ignition Key?

Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:06 pm

Quoting jetlagged (Reply 30):
Try it with any other aircraft name. As in "I'm flying to New York on the 747". It's not grammatically correct. "I'm flying to New York on Concorde" is more correct. "The" is superfluous. It did not originate with maketing hype, though BA certainly used "Concorde", with no definite or indefinite article, to great effect.

Huh?

Try again with the same example .... it would be "I'm flying to New York on 747"
Are you saying that is more grammatically correct than "flying on a 747", or "flying on the 747" ????



Jimbo

[Edited 2011-06-23 12:17:20]
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!

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