Bureaucromancer
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Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:08 am

What callsign do Canadian registered aircraft use while operating in the US? Specifically, would the C get dropped as is the case with the N on an American reg, and is the aircraft type included?
 
HAL
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:14 am

Assuming the plane is registered something like C-ABCD, the controller would say 'Cessna Alpha Bravo Charlie Delta', or sometimes, 'Canadian Alpha Bravo Charlie Delta'.

HAL
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:24 am

Thanks, exactly what I meant.
 
rutankrd
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:52 am

First ATC contact should surely be FULL serial ID for instance :-

Center (US spelling) this is Charlie Golf Alpha Bravo November, with center (US spelling) reaffirming this call sign back, thereafter continued relays with the same frequency would be truncated to just the first and last two
ie Charlie Bravo November.

Use of Canadian would be inappropriate and wrong.

What i have described is how it works here in Europe where this happens thousands of times a day as light aircraft transit neighbouring countries.

In recent years however many business jet operators have actually employed flight numbers so the likes of Netjets
use a airline type call sign rather than registration.
 
BE77
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:22 am

Near the border there's usually no problem, the reply is automatic "Charlie Golf Alpha Bravo Charlie" but as you get further south in the 48 often get "Canadian Golf, but occasionally when further away I have had (more than once) something like "Canadian ah...Yah the Canadian alphabet soup guy, what was you registration again and say your request".

In Canada you will occasionally hear ATC ask for the numbers again from N registered aircraft - they get the last one or two alpha characters correct but miss the numbers.

I'm always in the VFR world (normally with flight following if possible), so I imagine we're popping in and out of different air space with no notice, and especially once you are more than 100 miles or so from the border it's quite possible to be the only C regististration you hear all day. Same for N's north of the border. So, I imagine it just takes a rsecond to tune it back in if you haven't heard it for a while. Can't see a safety issue, since it's pretty obvoius to everyone who is being asked to do what.

I also imagine the FSS and ATC people on popular routes are more alert and ready for it (eg along the ALCAN highway, across Michagan and Wisconsin between Ontario and OSH, etc.

(Way more interesting was the day there were two of us in the same space with similar idents...ony the F and G different...)
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tjwgrr
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:51 pm

Quoting be77 (Reply 4):
I also imagine the FSS and ATC people on popular routes are more alert and ready for it (eg along the ALCAN highway, across Michagan and Wisconsin between Ontario and OSH, etc.
Quoting rutankrd (Reply 3):
Charlie Golf Alpha Bravo November

Here in GRR we get a fair share of Canadian reg a/c passing through and arriving/departing- I've heard local controllers use just the last three letters- IE Alpha Bravo November instead of all five.....
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BE77
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:23 am

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 5):
I've heard local controllers use just the last three letters- IE Alpha Bravo November instead of all five.....

That sounds about right - in Canada the norm is that the 'C' isn't used at all and you call up with the last 4 letters, but since the second letter is always F, G, or I, that gets dropped right away by ATC as long as it's still clear who's who. So, by your second radio call you're using the last 3 letters.
In fact, if it's busy, the F or G sometimes gets forgotten, and later on you might get asked if you are a Fox or a Golf with no reference to VW and/or Audi. ('I' is ultralight, so not frequently in busy controlled airspace and likely not to get confused with F or G just by type).
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Mir
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:45 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 3):
Center (US spelling) this is Charlie Golf Alpha Bravo November, with center (US spelling) reaffirming this call sign back, thereafter continued relays with the same frequency would be truncated to just the first and last two
ie Charlie Bravo November.

In the US, abbreviations are with the last three letters, not the first one and last two. So C-FDSC would be "Cessna Delta Sierra Charlie".

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 3):
Use of Canadian would be inappropriate and wrong.

Happens quite a lot, though.

-Mir
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Gemuser
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:55 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
In the US, abbreviations are with the last three letters, not the first one and last two. So C-FDSC would be "Cessna Delta Sierra Charlie".

Actually "Charlie Serria Charlie" is the correct ICAO format for an aircraft engaged in international civil aviation. I have heard an Australian registered aircraft use format this in the USA, eg VH-CMC would be Victor Mike Charlie (after first contact). Not to say some people don't do it differently to the rules.

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cbphoto
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:56 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 3):
Use of Canadian would be inappropriate and wrong.

So is half of the "slang" we use over here, but we still manage ok  
Quoting gemuser (Reply 8):

Actually "Charlie Serria Charlie" is the correct ICAO format for an aircraft engaged in international civil aviation. I have heard an Australian registered aircraft use format this in the USA, eg VH-CMC would be Victor Mike Charlie (after first contact). Not to say some people don't do it differently to the rules.

You know, now that you mention it, I have heard a few Mexican registrations by this format, like X-ray Alpha India!

Good to know!
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FighterPilot
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:57 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 3):
Use of Canadian would be inappropriate and wrong.

  

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unattendedbag
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:10 pm

Quoting HAL (Reply 1):
Assuming the plane is registered something like C-ABCD, the controller would say 'Cessna Alpha Bravo Charlie Delta', or sometimes, 'Canadian Alpha Bravo Charlie Delta'.

"Cessna" is not the phonetic representation of "C".

On initial contact, the callsign would be "Charlie Alpha Bravo Charlie Delta". They controller might then shorten it to "Alpha Bravo Charlie Delta" for subsequent communications.
Slower traffic, keep right
 
bond007
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:33 pm

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 11):
"Cessna" is not the phonetic representation of "C".

... but it's the aircraft type!

According to FAA 7110:

b. Foreign registry. State one of the following:
1. Civil. State the aircraft type or the manufacturer's
name followed by the letters/numbers of the
aircraft registration, or state the letters or digits of the
aircraft registration or call sign.
EXAMPLE-
“Stationair F-L-R-B.”
“C-F-L-R-B.”


Then also, a general rule on abbreviations:

Transmissions may be abbreviated as follows:
a. Use the identification prefix and the last 3 digits
or letters of the aircraft identification after
communications have been established.

Jimbo
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KELPkid
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:46 am

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 9):
You know, now that you mention it, I have heard a few Mexican registrations by this format, like X-ray Alpha India!

Good to know!

...and I have heard them call themselves on the air, in US airspace, "Twin Cessna Equis Alpha Bravo" (Equis is Spanish for the letter "X"). Sometimes, down in ELP, the controllers even respond to them on the air using Equis...   What I have noted with Mexican aircraft operating in US airspace is that they call in on frequency with the full call sign initiatially (e.g. "Twin Cessna X-Ray Bravo Charlie Alpha Bravo") and then shorten the callsign after the controller responds to the initial call. The controller afterwards uses whatever abbreviated callsign the aircraft uses when they responded with the shortened callsign.

Down in Mexico, flying a U.S. registered aircraft, you call in as, for example "Cessna November two eight zero niner Quebec"). Mexican ATC will abbreviate your callsign, although I have been called "Noviembre Cero Niner Quebec" down there   Sometimes their Mexican accent in English is so thick they are really hard to read...and everyone else on frequency is usually using Spanish (except us foreign aircraft...they will talk Spanish to you if you start responding to ATC in Spanish. Not recommended unless you are really profecient in Spanish techincal aviation terms...).
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bond007
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:48 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 8):
Actually "Charlie Serria Charlie" is the correct ICAO format for an aircraft engaged in international civil aviation. I have heard an Australian registered aircraft use format this in the USA, eg VH-CMC would be Victor Mike Charlie (after first contact). Not to say some people don't do it differently to the rules.

It mght be the correct ICAO format, but it is not what the FAA book says (see my post above), even though some ATC folks might use that format in the US. The ICAO format makes sense of course, and that's what the rest of the world uses... surprize!


Jimbo
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unattendedbag
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:27 am

Quoting bond007 (Reply 12):
... but it's the aircraft type!

Where in the original post does it say the aircraft was a Cessna?
Slower traffic, keep right
 
bond007
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:26 pm

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 15):
Where in the original post does it say the aircraft was a Cessna?

It's didn't. It didn't say that the registration was C-ABCD either, those were just examples.

Since HAL said:

Quoting HAL (Reply 1):
'Cessna Alpha Bravo Charlie Delta',

He obviously didn't confuse 'Cessna' With the phonetic for 'C', otherwise he wouldn't have said "Alpha Bravo Charlie Delta" after it!

Exactly as my example right out of the FAA handbook:

“Stationair F-L-R-B.”

Replace "Stationair" with "Cessna".


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
tower
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:04 pm

We occationally get a Canadian aircraft at my airport. And anytime we do, how I handle it is using the full callsign everytime. Such as C-FLN I say "Charlie Foxtrot Lima November" anytime I issue control instructions. From what I can tell, it seems to be how majority of the controllers at my facility do the same.

Edit: Same goes for when I have a GA aircraft that is registered with a N number, sometimes i'll say November One Two Three Four. Then after initial contact i'll use November Two Three Four. This of course is if i'm not familiar with the aircraft type such as experimental.

[Edited 2011-07-04 08:06:32]
 
bond007
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:51 pm

Quoting tower (Reply 17):
using the full callsign everytime. Such as C-FLN I say "Charlie Foxtrot Lima November"

But that isn't the full callsign  


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
tower
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RE: Canadian Reg GA Callsign In US

Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:48 am

Quoting bond007 (Reply 18):
But that isn't the full callsign

Shows how much I see Canadian aircraft!  Smile >.

[Edited 2011-07-04 21:49:30]

[Edited 2011-07-04 21:50:05]

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