FRAIAD
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IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:54 pm

The Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority (MWAA) has decided today (11-1 vote by the board) to endorse a plan by Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood and locate the Dulles Metro station aboveground close to the daily parking garage.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...7/19/gIQADdEaPI_story.html?hpid=z2

I don't think it's ideal because the station will be relatively far away from the terminal but if it's necessary to secure phase two of the Silver Line project, I'm fine with it. From my perspective, it is going to be so much better to be able to take one Metro line from downtown DC to IAD so I can live with the inconvenience of walking a little bit. I remember a lot of people here complaining about this option but I honestly think it's not going to be that bad. Your thoughts?
 
Atlwest1
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:05 pm

Some sort of option is long long overdue. Maybe they can build a connector with moving sidewalks to connect to the terminal. Also DCA has a somewhat lengthy walk if your leaving on JB AT SY F9 etc from the metro stop to that terminal so if people can do that im sure the walk will be done at IAD  
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:18 pm

I've seen a sketch ( I believe on the Dullescorrider.com web site -- I'll try to find it ) of the proposed above-ground station which will be architectually similar to Daily #1 and 2.

The station will also attach to the underground walkway ( that goes from Daily #1 to the Main terminal ) already in place. So, big bucks will be saved.
 
FRAIAD
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:35 pm

There are a couple of airports in the US where you're not really at the terminal when you arrive on a train, for example: BOS (shuttle bus from the blue line airport station), JFK (Airtrain from the subway, LIRR), EWR (Airtrain from the railroad station), BWI (shuttle bus from the railroad station). And those are some that actually have a good public transportation option. The problem for IAD IMHO is just the comparison with DCA where the situation is pretty perfect. As a big fan of IAD, I'm really happy that the chances for the Silver Line are much better now. And I think everybody who has ever experienced the Washington Flyer bus-Orange Line-nighmare will agree.
 
desertjets
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:46 pm

I remember people hemming and hawing about this. I also understand the importance of having better transit options at Dulles as well.

But let's not kid ourselves the option is really more about having a station at Dulles vs. not having one.... and running a shuttle bus from Herndon. It'll be one long ride from Metro Center to Dulles and I'd be willing to be not a lot of people will be doing that trip. Even from Roslyn or Ballston its going to be a long ride, but I can easily see a lot more trips starting in Arlington County than DC headed to Dulles. The real value to the silver line is that it finally give the Tyson's/Herndon/Dulles corridor a much needed transit upgrade. And even then the routing through the Tyson's area is elevated.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
lawair
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:48 pm

This whole debate was a little silly. Both options had some walking involved. And the above ground option is going to mean a distance of just over 1000 feet to the terminal, which is essentially the amount of walking people generally do from their cars to the train on some other metro stations anyway (ie. Greenbelt). Plus if you're taking the Metro to the airport, you're someone who likely already walked that same distance with a small carry-on bag to get to the train station. You're accustomed to some light walking, even with a small rolling bag.

I don't remember what the precise difference in distance was between the above and below ground options, but my guess is it would be roughly 500-600 feet. That seems worth the money savings to me anyway, particularly when 500-600 feet is only the length of a Metro station platform.

[Edited 2011-07-20 14:50:28]
 
washingtonian
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:49 pm

Absolutely disappointed. The short-sighted vision is representative of the flaws in our country, and the reason why we have such crappy infrastructure everywhere. They have ONE opportunity to do this right; it will last decades. They should spend the extra $300 million and build the underground station as close to the terminal as possible.

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 1):
Maybe they can build a connector with moving sidewalks to connect to the terminal.

There already is, underground to the parking lot. This will connect to that.

But for a traveller taking the Metro to Dulles:
45 minute ride from downtown DC
Down an escalator from the train platform to below ground.
Walk through the underground tunnel to the station
Up an escalator to the ground level
Enter the Main Terminal on the arrivals level.
Up an escalator to the check-in level.
Down an escalator to the security checkpoint
Down an escalator to the aero Train
Up an escalator to the concourse (and another walk through a tunnel if you're flying United)

Sounds like a win for our urban planners!!!! Sarcasm.

The ONLY advantage to this is that you'll get some kick-ass direct views from the Metro platform of the Main Terminal.
 
FRAIAD
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:57 pm

Btw: A while ago, the website dcist.com had some information about the 428 new cars Metro will get between 2013 and 2016 (300 for replacement, the rest for the Dulles route):

http://dcist.com/2011/07/video_first_look_inside_new_metro_c.php

They look pretty nice. Now, they just need to add the red-white-blue ribbon around the car's front...that's a must!
 
bjorn14
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:59 pm

I am disappointed but not a deal killer. At least the stop is AT the airport. Glad to have the Silver Line to IAD.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
washingtonian
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:06 pm

Americans love to waste money on crap all the time, why can't we waste it on 21st century infrastructure at one of the country's most important airports? In our nation's capital to boot!
 
desertjets
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:11 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 9):
Americans love to waste money on crap all the time, why can't we waste it on 21st century infrastructure at one of the country's most important airports? In our nation's capital to boot!

Not when it involves the possibility of raising taxes or building something that may possibly (but really won't) lower my property values.

I see your point and agree with you fully. But I really see it as having the above ground station by the parking garages, with an extended walk through a pre-existing tunnel w/ moving sidewalks, vs. not having a station at the airport and a ~ 20 minute shuttle bus ride from Herndon. .
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
tharanga
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:22 pm

better than nothing, but maybe someday, people will wonder if we couldn't have come up with the money somehow.

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 3):
I'm really happy that the chances for the Silver Line are much better now. And I think everybody who has ever experienced the Washington Flyer bus-Orange Line-nighmare will agree.

Until WMATA comes up with a plan for how to juggle the orange, blue and silver all on the same line, it'll still be a nightmare.

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 3):
BWI (shuttle bus from the railroad station).

Depends on which train you take.
 
mcdu
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:25 pm

I would not expect anything different from the board. They have continuously put the needs of the passengers aside to build their own ridiculous empire. The tunnel from the C station to the C terminal. The Rube Goldberg zigzag walk from the A station to the UAX gates and the lack of building the "new" C and D terminal to replace the current terminal for UA. It is a shame that IAD is the nations capital and UA brings in a significant amount of traffic, tourism and dollars to NOVA but yet the board builds the B gates for the other carriers.

It just seems fitting that the largest airport in the Washington area is as dysfunctional as Washington D.C. politics.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:27 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 2):
I've seen a sketch ( I believe on the Dullescorrider.com web site -- I'll try to find it ) of the proposed above-ground station which will be architectually similar to Daily #1 and 2.

It's so busy here today that this is the best I can do on short notice.

Both underground (green) and aerial (pink) alignments [from the MWAA web site]



Cross-section of IAD Hourly Parking Lot with both underground and aerial alignments [from the MWAA web site]
 
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auroralives
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:30 pm

Quoting Lawair (Reply 5):
I don't remember what the precise difference in distance was between the above and below ground options, but my guess is it would be roughly 500-600 feet.

Bang on... I remember seeing this diagram a few months ago...

http://www.mwaa.com/3785.htm
 
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Revelation
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:39 pm

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 3):
There are a couple of airports in the US where you're not really at the terminal when you arrive on a train, for example: BOS (shuttle bus from the blue line airport station), JFK (Airtrain from the subway, LIRR), EWR (Airtrain from the railroad station), BWI (shuttle bus from the railroad station).

Yeah, but the benchmark is FRA, AMS, etc.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 6):
Absolutely disappointed. The short-sighted vision is representative of the flaws in our country, and the reason why we have such crappy infrastructure everywhere. They have ONE opportunity to do this right; it will last decades. They should spend the extra $300 million and build the underground station as close to the terminal as possible.

  

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 6):
But for a traveller taking the Metro to Dulles:
45 minute ride from downtown DC
Down an escalator from the train platform to below ground.
Walk through the underground tunnel to the station
Up an escalator to the ground level
Enter the Main Terminal on the arrivals level.
Up an escalator to the check-in level.
Down an escalator to the security checkpoint
Down an escalator to the aero Train
Up an escalator to the concourse (and another walk through a tunnel if you're flying United)

Seems like a bonanza for the sign makers, sigh...

Quoting tharanga (Reply 11):
better than nothing, but maybe someday, people will wonder if we couldn't have come up with the money somehow.

What are the odds that the IAD station won't get axed in the future?
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
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kgaiflyer
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:56 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
What are the odds that the IAD station won't get axed in the future?

Actually, IAD isn't the end of the Metro Silver Line.

Washington-Dulles straddles two county's lines (Fairfax and Loudoun) and there are new stations planned before and after the IAD stop.

So -- once this gets rolling, local politics will prevent it from stopping before completion.
 
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:04 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 16):
Actually, IAD isn't the end of the Metro Silver Line.

Washington-Dulles straddles two county's lines (Fairfax and Loudoun) and there are new stations planned before and after the IAD stop.

So -- once this gets rolling, local politics will prevent it from stopping before completion.

Thanks for the clarification.

I thought IAD was a 'stub line' that could be bypassed.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
ontime
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:07 pm

Can I ask why it would not have been possible to have aerial tracks make a perpendicular approach headed southbound to the east side of the main terminal, where the front of the arriving train would have been directly at (or much closer) to the easternmost entrance to the main terminal? At least that way many passengers would have to do far less walking, and I presume the aerial tracks would not interfere with the sight lines for the terminal, especially if the station design had the same "swoop" of the terminal.

I agree with the posters above who say this is a missed opportunity and a serious loss of time to mass transit users. They would never consider having the passenger auto dropoffs be 1000 feet from the main terminal, so there is no reason to consider placing the metro station that far away.
 
FRAIAD
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:21 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
Yeah, but the benchmark is FRA, AMS, etc.

True, but it's not necessarily a short trip at FRA (my home airport) if you arrive at the train station (especially the long distance train station) and your airline is located at Terminal 2 (even worse with regard to the future Terminal 3). I think it's the problem of every huge airport (including IAD) that the distances between check-in, gates, other infrastructure etc. get longer and longer. This is true in particular for airports that are not clean-sheet-designs but have grown step by step over decades. I haven't been to AMS though so I can't comment on the situation there.

I think the cross-section plan in kgaiflyer's post shows that the difference between the two discussed station locations is actually not that big. And washingtonian mentioned rightly that it's a lot of walking anyway. Generally, air travel is such a pain these days that those couple of feet are not going to make any difference for me.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 12):
It just seems fitting that the largest airport in the Washington area is as dysfunctional as Washington D.C. politics.

I strongly disagree regarding DC politics but that's just my opinion. I definitely agree with you though that concourse C/D should be a priority for the MWAA. Other than that, IAD is a pretty nice airport now.
 
Charles79
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:36 pm

Quoting FRAIAD (Thread starter):
The Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority (MWAA) has decided today (11-1 vote by the board) to endorse a plan by Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood and locate the Dulles Metro station aboveground close to the daily parking garage.

Disappointed, obviously, but better than the current solution. I have taken the underground connection many times from the Daily Garage and it's not a terrible experience (unless there's water filtration which happens often!). Will be a great asset to have one-ride connection at last!

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 3):
And I think everybody who has ever experienced the Washington Flyer bus-Orange Line-nighmare will agree.

For what it is, the Flyer/Orange Line combo isn't that bad...provided that you allow yourself plenty of time to make your flight!
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:01 am

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 19):
Quoting mcdu (Reply 12):
It just seems fitting that the largest airport in the Washington area is as dysfunctional as Washington D.C. politics.

I strongly disagree regarding DC politics but that's just my opinion.

You're right. Democrats and Republicans are sharing pitchers of beer as we speak.

And Marion Berry and Adrian Fenty -- as DC Mayors -- were as honest as the days are long.   (sarcasm)
 
panova98
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:22 am

Truly amazing any transportation infrastructure in our fair country (USA, USA, USA!) ever, ever gets planned, funded, and bulit timely and effectively. Not that we couldn't do it right, but given the political and jurisdictional disputes (Dulles sure makes for a great example of this), things ain't going to get better anytime soon. So, I guess anything, even an above-ground station, is a positive.

"Partnering," working with the private sector to figure out how to give and take to keep down the costs, seems to be the buzz word re: the Dulles Silver Line. Remember, FedEx until recently, or are they still doing it, flew a morning 757 from Dulles to National. Maybe they'll jump in and figure out how to use the rails to put on some of their own cars and deliver packages to downtown in the wee hours of the morning!
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:41 am

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 6):
Down an escalator from the train platform to below ground.
Walk through the underground tunnel to the station
Up an escalator to the ground level
Enter the Main Terminal on the arrivals level.
Up an escalator to the check-in level.
Down an escalator to the security checkpoint
Down an escalator to the aero Train
Up an escalator to the concourse (and another walk through a tunnel if you're flying United)

Everyone who parks in Garage #1 does all this already. It's less than ideal, but it's either this or nothing at all. MWAA has grossly mismanaged the Silver Line project and allow costs to spiral out of control....something had to give.
 
D L X
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:49 am

TOTAL FAILURE!!!!!


And I mean total.


If you're not going to do it right, DON'T DO IT AT ALL. This station is not going to be there "for now, until we have the money to put it in the best place for it", it's going to be there for eternity. If it's expensive, then wait until you can afford it.

The thing that burns me up the most is that it's the people in Fairfax County and Loudoun County that are telling Dulles to put it underground to save money, when clearly, the people in Fairfax and Loudoun aren't the ones that are going to be using the subway to get to the airport anyway. So, once again, Loudoun and Fairfax screw the rest of the area with their shortsightedness. (If Fairfax knew how to plan in the first place, the Orange line would have gone to Dulles way back in the 80s.

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 3):

There are a couple of airports in the US where you're not really at the terminal when you arrive on a train, for example: BOS (shuttle bus from the blue line airport station), JFK (Airtrain from the subway, LIRR), EWR (Airtrain from the railroad station), BWI (shuttle bus from the railroad station). And those are some that actually have a good public transportation option.

And to think that we could have learned from the mistakes of others...
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:57 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 24):
If it's expensive, then wait until you can afford it.

Which will be NEVER. The longer you wait to build it, the more expensive it will become.

Quoting D L X (Reply 24):
The thing that burns me up the most is that it's the people in Fairfax County and Loudoun County that are telling Dulles to put it underground to save money, when clearly, the people in Fairfax and Loudoun aren't the ones that are going to be using the subway to get to the airport anyway.

Except the primary point of the silver line is NOT to serve the airport. The silver's lines primary purpose is to take people from Loudoun/Fairfax into the work centers at Tysons, Arlington and DC. Service to the airport is a secondary use. Many on this board seem to forget this fact.

Quoting D L X (Reply 24):
So, once again, Loudoun and Fairfax screw the rest of the area with their shortsightedness.

So, the people of Loundon are supposed to pay for the bulk of the line to Dulles, but have no say in the matter??
 
D L X
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:09 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 25):
Quoting D L X (Reply 24):
If it's expensive, then wait until you can afford it.

Which will be NEVER.

SO, is the goal to just build it, even if you build it so it doesn't work? I don't think it is.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 25):
Except the primary point of the silver line is NOT to serve the airport.

That is what people have said very recently to convince other players to help build it, but let's be honest: this always was the Dulles Airport line. If it weren't going to the airport, it wouldn't have ever gotten off the drawing board. Don't ever forget that. No airport, no Silver Line.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 25):
So, the people of Loundon are supposed to pay for the bulk of the line to Dulles,

no, I never said that.
 
AA777
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:38 am

Moving it over there is not a big deal. Many airports are set up such that the walk to the train is not just 2 steps from the terminal.

We need to get over it and deal! At least there will finally be a train so people can stop complaining that Dulles is "so far away"... .
 
christao17
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:23 am

Seems like a whole lot of fuss for what is, at the end of the day, a difference of only 600 feet. Not 600 feet in the outdoors, mind you, but 600 feet inside a pedestrian tunnel with moving sidewalks. If that is what it takes to get the line to the airport built, it seems like a very small price to pay.
Keeping the "civil" in civil aviation...
 
FRAIAD
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:36 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):
MWAA has grossly mismanaged the Silver Line project and allow costs to spiral out of control.

Absolutely correct. I cannot believe that these couple of miles are going to cost that much. Especially if you look at the actual location: Apart from the airport area, building phase 2 (I'm not talking about the Tyson's Corner part) basically means putting tracks in the median of a highway. You might need to build a couple of bridges and stations and, of course, the parking structures and bus stops around the future stations cost money too. But $3.5 billion? Seriously? And that's the current estimate without the underground IAD station. It's not that they are building 11.5 miles of tunnels.
 
tharanga
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:05 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 26):
but let's be honest: this always was the Dulles Airport line. If it weren't going to the airport, it wouldn't have ever gotten off the drawing board. Don't ever forget that. No airport, no Silver Line.

While that's true, more of the traffic will be to/from Tysons, I think.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:46 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 26):
no, I never said that.

Maybe you missed FlyPNS1's point? It's not a matter of "what you said," but a point of fact. A chunk of the funding for the Dulles Metro Station is coming from users of the Dulles Toll Road, who are not going to the airport. FlyPNS1's point is that they are being asked to pay for a chunk of the cost of the station. So it's proper for those users, large numbers of whom live in Fairfax and Loudoun Counties, to have some say in the cost.

One big overarching problem is the idolization of the Saarinen terminal. Dulles is an *airport.* Airports have to work. And that means that transportation and parking need to be close-in. The best solution would be to put an above-ground station *in the parking bowl, connected by enclosed walkway to the terminal.* But they won't do that, because of the all-important unobstructed view. The view of the historic 1939 DCA terminal didn't stop Metro from putting above-ground rail in front of it.

I dislike Dulles, largely because of getting into and through the terminal. I haven't used the Byzantine new security arrangments, or the 550-foot walk to C-D from the people-mover station that's built for a concourse that may or may not ever exist. And all the changes of levels...as Washingtonian has summarized, you spend more time going up and down than if you were in an Escher drawing.

Some years ago I realized that the moon buggies actually worked fine....go through security on the check-in level, walk a short distance and wait less than a minute for the rumbly bus on the same level, ride the rumbly bus for two minutes, get off on the same level and walk to your gate.

Quoting D L X (Reply 26):
That is what people have said very recently to convince other players to help build it, but let's be honest: this always was the Dulles Airport line. If it weren't going to the airport, it wouldn't have ever gotten off the drawing board. Don't ever forget that. No airport, no Silver Line.

Doesn't matter. Most of the users will not be going to the airport.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 12):
and the lack of building the "new" C and D terminal to replace the current terminal for UA. It is a shame that IAD is the nations capital and UA brings in a significant amount of traffic, tourism and dollars to NOVA but yet the board builds the B gates for the other carriers.

If UA wants to pay for a new C-D, they are free to approach MWAA and offer to do so. You can be sure users of A-B are paying fees to cover the cost of that shiny new concourse. UA gets to keep its costs down by using a giant double-wide, and the LCC's who use A-B get to pay for it. I wonder what role that cost has played in their stagnating at IAD.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
bjorn14
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:15 pm

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 10):
Not when it involves the possibility of raising taxes or building something that may possibly (but really won't) lower my property values.

When Chicago extended the "EL" out to MDW surrounding property values went up significantly.

Quoting D L X (Reply 26):
No airport, no Silver Line.

I remember when they opened the Springfield/Franconia station and some bureaucrat mentioned that this would be the last station in Virginia, Sen. John Warner grabs the mike ands says "Hell, no we're going to Dulles!"
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
apodino
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:54 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 32):

When Chicago extended the "EL" out to MDW surrounding property values went up significantly.

Interesting comment, because MDW is the airport I instantly thought of when I saw this plan. It's not that bad a plan, just a walk through a parking garage to get to the terminal. This type of walk is similar to airports like MDW, ORD, MSP (Humphrey terminal), and PVD. This may not be a DCA metro connection, but it could be a lot worse, and like I said, that walk is nothing.
 
desertjets
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RE: IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground

Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:15 pm

Why did this move over to tech/ops??

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 32):
Quoting DesertJets (Reply 10):
Not when it involves the possibility of raising taxes or building something that may possibly (but really won't) lower my property values.

When Chicago extended the "EL" out to MDW surrounding property values went up significantly.

my comment was slightly tongue in cheek, but one that opponents to transit projects make. Any well thought out transit expansion will positively impact property values. Just nobody wants to be in the house right next to the tracks (which is hidden from view by a 15 foot tall sound wall).

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 31):
One big overarching problem is the idolization of the Saarinen terminal.

It is a striking building and a good piece of modern design. But even with the various modifications given to it over the years it is functionally obsolete in many ways. Now I am all for historic preservation, but I don't necessarily see replacing a "classic" airport terminal in the same way the demolition of Penn Station and the subsequent eyesore that was rebuilt in its place as the same thing.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia

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