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Flight Deck Conditions

Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:35 pm

I work in the UK on board trains and spend a significant amount of my day in the driving cab.

Even though the trains are only about 5 years old they are seeing a lot of wear and tear - and some abuse.

The driving cabs are limited to drivers/guards and have no public access - yet some trains have almost been vandalised - drawn/wriiten on, desk materials ripped/scratched and things like cup holders bent and damaged.

Does a similar thing occur on the flight deck of aircraft or does the crew tend to look after them ?
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DashTrash
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:59 pm

A little bit of both. For the most part we want a clean environment to work in. I've flown for budget minded airlines that rarely cleaned the cockpit resulting in a lot of dust. I've also flown for a company that kept them clean. Most pilots at least have some level of desire to keep things clean and professional and will do some light housekeeping.

You'll also find purposely made scratches and graffiti, especially during negotiation time. Sort of ridiculous, but you have "10 percenters" at every airline.

There's plenty of wear and tear that happens through normal operations. Paint and coatings wear off frequently used components such as the yoke, power levers, parking brake handle, and commonly used switches. Most companies won't replace that type of stuff unless it's broken, and worn paint isn't broken.
 
wilco737
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:47 pm

I find our flight decks rather clean. I mean, they are indeed old. All around 20 years old. But the paint is re-newed regularly, so not a lot scratches or wear.

Graffiti? Never seen anything like that in any of our flight decks. No notes, no comments, no "I was here" marks, nothing.

Dust? well, depends a little. usually it is only little dusty, sometimes more...

The worst I usually is see when crews before me don't empty their trash or leave back empty cans of coke or coffee cups etc...

wilco737
  
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:58 pm

Ours are certainly well used, but for the most part they're kept clean. We have sanitary wipes and it isn't uncommon to find the occasional napkin or scratch piece of paper. The unofficial mantra seems to be "leave it better than you found it" and most guys will take the time to straighten/tidy up when they can. I know I'll make sure to leave my side of the office better than it was when I got in, my first flight instructor instilled this in me and it was something I passed on to my students when I was an instructor and is something I still abide by. Heaven forbid you get in after a commuter's last flight on Day 4 or after a stand-up crew, sometimes it looks like a small explosive was set off.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:06 pm

Paint touchups only during a Major check.
Regular cleaning carried out.
Instruments cleaned with an antiseptic wipe.
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Mir
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:16 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 2):
I find our flight decks rather clean. I mean, they are indeed old. All around 20 years old. But the paint is re-newed regularly, so not a lot scratches or wear.

Living up to the German stereotype, eh?  

-Mir
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B727LVR
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:42 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 1):
- drawn/wriiten on, desk materials ripped/scratched and things like cup holders bent and damaged.

My pilots have the freq's of the FBO's they go to the most written on the the FO's side, and I have seen comments written under the caps if the rudder and aileron tab controls, mostly jabs at other pilots or mechanics. As for items being torn or damaged once a crew memeber writes them up we have to fix it. Even if we put it on deferred maintenance list we have a maximum time limit it can remain like that, so because of the rules/regs, aircraft will be kept up to a better standard or degree.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 4):
Instruments cleaned with an antiseptic wipe.

As an avionics guy, I cant stand to see fingerprints on the instuments and radios, if I am sitting there working on something I will usually bring a can of cleaner and a rag and clean them. Granted the two of the three aircraft I help maintain were built in 67 and 69, so keeping them looking spic and span can be tough.
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wilco737
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:09 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
Living up to the German stereotype, eh?  

Meh, I guess so  No, but seriously what pisses me off are fingerprints all over the screens. What do they do there?!    No real need to touch them :P

wilco737
  
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:57 pm

I never understood how fingerprints end up in the middle of screens either. None of the airplanes we fly are touch-screens yet it looks like people have been trying to write an essay on an imaginary on screen keyboard sometimes.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:07 am

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 8):
I never understood how fingerprints end up in the middle of screens either. None of the airplanes we fly are touch-screens yet it looks like people have been trying to write an essay on an imaginary on screen keyboard sometimes.

Same on every computer screen. People point at stuff. Instead of stopping just short, they plant their greasy finger on the screen. I've never really understood why this happens.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
DashTrash
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 am

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 8):
I never understood how fingerprints end up in the middle of screens either. None of the airplanes we fly are touch-screens yet it looks like people have been trying to write an essay on an imaginary on screen keyboard sometimes.

I actually fingerprinted up both FMS's once to just give the captain taking the airplane higher blood pressure. He got me back later.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:59 am

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 8):
I never understood how fingerprints end up in the middle of screens either.

it all a bad habit of pointing  

Ever wondered why most Flight deck floors are not carpetted.........
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FlyboyOz
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:21 am

Point fingers on the screen..lol... pilots may want to change the flight direction and waypoints.

On a Boeing 747 when flying, i found it very weird that there were few spider webs or dust (had no idea what it looks like) and was wondering why they didn't clean web for ages...

The flight deck room looks very small. Everytimes i walked inside the flight deck, I have to bend down and sometimes hit my head...ouch!
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Starlionblue
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:37 pm

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 12):
The flight deck room looks very small. Everytimes i walked inside the flight deck, I have to bend down and sometimes hit my head...ouch!

It's not made for standing. If you sit down in one of the pilot seats it feels much bigger. Just right in fact.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
wilco737
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:58 pm

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 12):
The flight deck room looks very small. Everytimes i walked inside the flight deck, I have to bend down and sometimes hit my head...ouch!

So true! But I never hit my head in the flight deck. I know I am tall and watch out 

But the first time I came into the 744 flight deck I was like "where is the rest?" I was used to the MD11 cockpit which is significantly bigger...
But now I feel very comfortable on my seat in the 744 flight deck. Nice and cosy.

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Speedbird741
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:32 pm

It obviously depends on the airline and on the culture. On the dirty side of things, I have been told and have seen first hand some less than inviting TAAG cockpits. A pilot who I know used to tell me that it seemed the FMC's and flight controls were bathed in vegetable oil every flight before his. When TAAG had some US pilots operating their 74Ds, they used gloves throughout the flight. I understand this is common practice in some countries such as Japan, but not in the United States as far as I know.

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 12):
The flight deck room looks very small.

Yeah, I always feel the same way about 330/340 cockpits as well. I would like to know how the 380 cockpit feels.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 14):
Nice and cosy.

And graciously noisy   

Speedbird741
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wilco737
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:34 pm

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 15):
And graciously noisy   

Oh indeed   

wilco737
  
 
PGNCS
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:06 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 2):
Graffiti? Never seen anything like that in any of our flight decks. No notes, no comments, no "I was here" marks, nothing.

We don't see that either. I can't say it never happens, just that I never recall having seen it, so if it does it's amazingly infrequent at my company.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 2):
The worst I usually is see when crews before me don't empty their trash or leave back empty cans of coke or coffee cups etc...

Same for us too. I particularly dislike the half cup of coffee in the cupholder.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:35 pm

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 15):
they used gloves throughout the flight

There are a few crew out here that use the white gloves too  

From Mx.......Dont drop the coffee on the equipment .....
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B727LVR
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:58 am

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 12):
The flight deck room looks very small. Everytimes i walked inside the flight deck, I have to bend down and sometimes hit my head...ouch!

Should try a DC9/MD80 sometimes.... At 6'3" I have had more lumps on my head... I love the wide body cockpits, and so does my noggin.  
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Mir
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:18 am

Quoting B727LVR (Reply 19):
Should try a DC9/MD80 sometimes....

You should try a CJ cockpit. There's no way to get in or out of that without looking like you're trying out for a ballet company (not that you'd make it very far through the audition process   ).

-Mir
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SAAFNAV
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:22 am

We have a pilot at work who used to instruct on the PC-12.

When he qualified somebody on the type, he'd give them a paintbrush, with the words: 'Your aerie now, you keep her clean while on autopilot.'

Erich
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FlyboyOz
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:56 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 14):
MD11 cockpit which is significantly bigger...

True... yeah MD11/DC10 flight deck looks much bigger than others.

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 15):
I would like to know how the 380 cockpit feels.

Yeah, I would like to know how the A380 flight deck feels. It seems to me that it looks really big and spacious when I looked at the photos of A380 flight deck.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 18):
Dont drop the coffee on the equipment .....

True... I heard from the news that pilot dripped the coffee on the equipment accidentally and had to make an emergency landing as they were worried that it may affect the computer/electronic system. ouch!

[Edited 2011-08-13 04:02:13]
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:28 am

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 1):
A little bit of both. For the most part we want a clean environment to work in. I've flown for budget minded airlines that rarely cleaned the cockpit resulting in a lot of dust. I've also flown for a company that kept them clean. Most pilots at least have some level of desire to keep things clean and professional and will do some light housekeeping.
Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 3):
Ours are certainly well used, but for the most part they're kept clean. We have sanitary wipes and it isn't uncommon to find the occasional napkin or scratch piece of paper. The unofficial mantra seems to be "leave it better than you found it" and most guys will take the time to straighten/tidy up when they can. I know I'll make sure to leave my side of the office better than it was when I got in, my first flight instructor instilled this in me and it was something I passed on to my students when I was an instructor and is something I still abide by. Heaven forbid you get in after a commuter's last flight on Day 4 or after a stand-up crew, sometimes it looks like a small explosive was set off.

I have seen clean cockpits (HAPAG Lloyd has paintbrushes installed in a clip on the F/O´s side to clean the panels while doing a boring cruise) and I´ve seen cockpits, where trhe pilots apparently thought that they had a maid to clean up after them (food wrappers all over the place, apple cores on the floor, drink spills all over    ).
I keep my ramp van and my office clean, since it is the place I spent 12 hours a day in when I´m at work, and I come down hard on my subordinates if they don´t do the same in their vans and stores, but I don´t understand pilots, who leave such a mess.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 7):
Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
Living up to the German stereotype, eh?

Meh, I guess so No, but seriously what pisses me off are fingerprints all over the screens. What do they do there?! No real need to touch them :P

Wait until you´ll find Tippex on them, where somebody has corrected the route!  

Jan
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PGNCS
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:19 pm

Quoting B727LVR (Reply 19):
Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 12):
The flight deck room looks very small. Everytimes i walked inside the flight deck, I have to bend down and sometimes hit my head...ouch!

Should try a DC9/MD80 sometimes.... At 6'3" I have had more lumps on my head... I love the wide body cockpits, and so does my noggin.

I have for about 11,000 hours and have never had a problem with the -9 or -80 (I am 6' 2"); I DID have a problem with the 737 however, which has the worst ergonomics of any mainline jet I have ever been on. I swear there's blood and hair from previous guy's scalps all over those aft switches!   The RJ's I have jumpseated on have been even worse, unsurprisingly.

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 22):
Quoting wilco737 (Reply 14):
MD11 cockpit which is significantly bigger...

True... yeah MD11/DC10 flight deck looks much bigger than others.

The 747 cockpit IS small, cramped, and noisy. The MD-11 is nice (only been up there as a jumpseater) but the L-1011 reigns supreme in my estimation for space and ergonomics.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:19 pm

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 22):
True... I heard from the news that pilot dripped the coffee on the equipment accidentally and had to make an emergency landing as they were worried that it may affect the computer/electronic system. ouch!

True.
Another issue is crew using Sugar sachets instead of sugar cubes in their Tea/Coffee.This spills into the equipment.
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tdscanuck
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:22 pm

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 22):
True... I heard from the news that pilot dripped the coffee on the equipment accidentally and had to make an emergency landing as they were worried that it may affect the computer/electronic system. ouch!

Emergency landing? Exactly how dumb do these guys think the design engineers are?

Coffee/tea (and, more importantly, sugar!) make the panels gummy and gross and will eventually lock up the keypads (annoying but not an emergency), but the computers should be built to not care at all.

Tom.
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:10 pm

Ah right i see. I was doing research on the pilot's 747 seat long time ago. It could be a poor ergonomics seat design. Lots of pilots complained that the seat isn't soft and comfy enough. One of the pilots reported that he could feel a metal inside the seat. No room to move around, narrow armrest, no lumbar support(?).

Note: (?) I don't remember whether it has been reported or not.

BTW... how come the cleaners don't go the flight deck to clean up the mess, tidy up and pick up the rubbish?? They only clean up the cabin only??

[Edited 2011-08-13 12:14:02]
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:17 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 26):
Coffee/tea (and, more importantly, sugar!) make the panels gummy and gross and will eventually lock up the keypads (annoying but not an emergency), but the computers should be built to not care at all.

Still, crews with a sense of responsibilty hand their coffee cups around the OUTSIDE of the cockpit, not over the centre pedestal. In case of a spillage only the respective pilot´s flight case will be affected.

I have replaced enough centre pedestal panels with "Coca Cola" syndrome.

Jan
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Part147
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:19 pm

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 27):
BTW... how come the cleaners don't go the flight deck to clean up the mess, tidy up and pick up the rubbish?? They only clean up the cabin only??

I would imagine the answer is simple... surely two professionals sitting in their office up front can't make THAT much of a mess that they can't clean it up after themselves???
It's better to ask a stupid question during training, rather than make a REALLY stupid mistake later on!
 
saab2000
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:28 am

Our airplanes look well used and even worn in some areas and it the cleaning of the flight decks is always a controversial topic at my company but the idea of 'graffiti' in the cockpit is inconceivable. We still pride ourselves in our profession and professionalism and even the most jaded pilot knows that it's someone else's multi-million dollar airplane and it's a privilege to fly it. The idea of willfully damaging the flight deck or any other part of the airplane is simply unheard of at my company. Thankfully. I expect it's the same at most other professionally staffed companies.
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B727LVR
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:33 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
You should try a CJ cockpit. There's no way to get in or out of that without looking like you're trying out for a ballet company (not that you'd make it very far through the audition process ).

Sounds like me getting in or out of my Lear 35 while doing maintenance... I finally gave up getting in the seats unless I absolutely have too. This cockpit is a pain to keep clean because its so small. Its hard to reach most of the places without getting stuck.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:19 pm

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 27):
BTW... how come the cleaners don't go the flight deck to clean up the mess, tidy up and pick up the rubbish?? They only clean up the cabin only??

To Avoid unauthorised persons into the flight deck lest they alter any control my mistake.The maintenance staff hand over the trash to them.
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Max Q
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:18 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 7):
No, but seriously what pisses me off are fingerprints all over the screens. What do they do there?! No real need to touch them :P

Couldn't agree more !
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26point2
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:00 pm

Cockpit stays very clean but FBO crew cars are typically a mess. Pilots leaving behind fast food wrappers, drink cans and other garbage. I never understood why these guys can't grab their trash...and the car is free.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:27 pm

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 34):
Cockpit stays very clean but FBO crew cars are typically a mess. Pilots leaving behind fast food wrappers, drink cans and other garbage. I never understood why these guys can't grab their trash...and the car is free.

Instructions from the CFOM would be the requirement......
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wn700driver
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RE: Flight Deck Conditions

Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:55 am

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 1):


A little bit of both. For the most part we want a clean environment to work in. I've flown for budget minded airlines that rarely cleaned the cockpit resulting in a lot of dust. I've also flown for a company that kept them clean. Most pilots at least have some level of desire to keep things clean and professional and will do some light housekeeping.

You'll also find purposely made scratches and graffiti, especially during negotiation time. Sort of ridiculous, but you have "10 percenters" at every airline

We used to have both pilots & mx draw "funmeters" in some of the instrument blanks at those times. The great thing is that it would stick, and you'd see how various crews would re-draw where the needle pointed to. Almost any given night, you could see how far between "I hate this place" & "fuck yeah" the needle had swooshed...

Quoting B727LVR (Reply 6):

As an avionics guy, I cant stand to see fingerprints on the instuments and radios, if I am sitting there working on something I will usually bring a can of cleaner and a rag and clean them.

I just can't stand those, full stop. I will say though, people always notice how clean the windows of my car are.

Quote:

Quoting some guy here...
The 747 cockpit IS small, cramped, and noisy. The MD-11 is nice (only been up there as a jumpseater) but the L-1011 reigns supreme in my estimation for space and ergonomics.

I always liked the 1011's faux wood grain paneling. Soooooooooooooo 1970s!
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