747400sp
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Is It True That A 747 Has A Smaller Cockpit?

Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:57 am

I read in an airliner mag, that 747 classic, had the smallest cockpit of all the first the gen wide bodies. So, is this true, if so, those pilots on trans Pac flight in the 80's, has to be cramp.  
 
Speedbird741
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RE: Is It True That A 747 Has A Smaller Cockpit?

Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:24 am

I assume that by first generation wide bodies you mean the DC-10, 1011, 747, and perhaps the A300. If so, then yes, the 747 did have the smallest (or so it felt) cockpit. I'm not sure how the A300's his as I have never been in one, but I believe it isn't far ahead in its size. The aforementioned trijets are noted for having roomy cockpits. Roomier than any of the new wide bodies in fact.

Speedbird741
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B747FE
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RE: Is It True That A 747 Has A Smaller Cockpit?

Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:47 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):

It doesn't really feel so different than the DC-10, except for the visibility on the ground which is great on the DC compared with the 747.
In any case, I don't feel the size of the cockpit is an issue.

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B747FE.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is It True That A 747 Has A Smaller Cockpit?

Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:39 am

This is a function of its placement. All other widebody cockpits are on the main deck (or on the 380, between two twin-aisle decks). So they're wider and have a higher ceiling. The 747 cockpit is sitting at the front of what is basically a narrowbody cross section and in the crown of the aircraft.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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747classic
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RE: Is It True That A 747 Has A Smaller Cockpit?

Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:56 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 3):
Quoting B747FE (Reply 2):

I fully agree on both statements ,

The cockpit is actually situated in the top of a pear-shaped fuselage, so the wide and height of the 747 cockpit is less than comparable wide bodies, designed at the same time.
However I never felt cramped in this cockpit, everything was always easy to reach, the major drawback was the relative high aerodynamic and air conditioning noise in the cockpit, especially in the older classic series, with less noise blankets. installed. I have operated the aircraft during the first years of my career even without a noise cushion installed at the escape hatch.
When we came up for our medical, after completion of the hearing check, the doctor always said to me : I see on the graph you are still on the 747 !!!!


But remember this : the cockpit area COSTS money, the cabin area EARNS money. So on the very efficient 747 the cockpit is relative small, compared to the money earning cabin area.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is It True That A 747 Has A Smaller Cockpit?

Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:39 am

Quoting 747classic (Reply 4):
But remember this : the cockpit area COSTS money, the cabin area EARNS money. So on the very efficient 747 the cockpit is relative small, compared to the money earning cabin area.

So you're saying they should sell seats in the cockpit? Sounds good to me. 
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B777LRF
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RE: Is It True That A 747 Has A Smaller Cockpit?

Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:23 pm

If you walk directly from an Elle TenEleven cockpit to a 747 ditto, yes it will indeed seem small and cramped. Still, it's virtually a ballroom compared to the front office in a Concorde.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
PGNCS
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RE: Is It True That A 747 Has A Smaller Cockpit?

Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:34 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
pilots on trans Pac flight in the 80's, has to be cramp

It's still small and noisy even today.
 
citationjet
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RE: Is It True That A 747 Has A Smaller Cockpit?

Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:38 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 6):
Still, it's virtually a ballroom compared to the front office in a Concorde.

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747classic
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RE: Is It True That A 747 Has A Smaller Cockpit?

Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:32 am

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 8):
747-400 - Concorde



IMO you are comparing apples and pears , a two crew cockpit looks always less cramped than a three crew cockpit with a F/E panel installed at the sidewall.

A comparison between a classic 747 cockpit and the Concorde cockpit is more realistic and yes the Concorde is more cramped.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
PGNCS
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RE: Is It True That A 747 Has A Smaller Cockpit?

Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:06 pm

Quoting 747classic (Reply 9):
A comparison between a classic 747 cockpit and the Concorde cockpit is more realistic and yes the Concorde is more cramped.

Well of course Concorde was more cramped...a supersonic airliner with the smallest possible cross section will definitely be smaller, but the question asked about "...the smallest cockpit of all the first the gen wide bodies," and the 747 does have the smallest cockpit of the original three widebodies to be certain, which also makes the point that "a two crew cockpit looks always less cramped than a three crew cockpit with a F/E panel installed at the sidewall" moot.

747classic's point "The cockpit is actually situated in the top of a pear-shaped fuselage, so the wide and height of the 747 cockpit is less than comparable wide bodies, designed at the same time" addresses the nature of the issue perfectly.

The corollary from the same (very good) post "However I never felt cramped in this cockpit, everything was always easy to reach, the major drawback was the relative high aerodynamic and air conditioning noise in the cockpit" I find to be a mixed bag. I think it's cramped compared to other widebody aircraft I have flown, I don't find the ergonomics particularly great, and the noise is horrendous by comparison. I'm glad I flew it but I don't miss it at all.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Is It True That A 747 Has A Smaller Cockpit?

Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:38 am

Compared to a B737.......B747 Flight Deck/Cockpit seems no bother  
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Max Q
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RE: Is It True That A 747 Has A Smaller Cockpit?

Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:50 am

The late BP. Davies wrote 'handling the big jets' his book is still recognised as the acknowledged authority for Professional Pilots.



This is what he has to say about the B747 Cockpit.



''my conclusion after about thirty hours flying is that 'the enforced proximity to structure and the feeling of sitting 'in' rather than 'on' the aeroplane both lead to a close identification with the aeroplane and raise the accuracy of flight path control.



In other words, you wear it like a glove, like a B727 thats not a bad thing.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.

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