WestJetForLife
Topic Author
Posts: 704
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:37 am

737NG Flight Deck Display Configurations

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:05 pm

Hello, everyone. I have another question to ask in regards to the display configuration on the 737NG.

So, as a lot of people know, the 737NG has two types of flight deck display configuration: the PFD/ND "default" configuration and the "Southwest" configuration, which I believe is slowly being phased out due to RNP requirements. I use WN as an example because they're the first airline that comes to mind when I think of the 'classic-layout' configuration.

The "Southwest" configuration has all of the EICAS information on the top-center DU, located between the Captain's and First Officer's navigation/altitude display. The PFD/ND configuration has the EICAS information split between the upper and lower DUs.

Here's my question: can an airline have a 'hybrid' 737NG flight deck configuration, where all the EICAS information is on the upper DU whilst retaining the PFD/ND RNP layout, or is the avionic software logic 'locked' in such a way that it's one or the other?

I really appreciate the help, guys.

Nik
I need a drink.
 
Fabo
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:30 am

RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Configurations

Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:38 am

If it does not have to be side-by-side as it is with WN, then you can just press ENG button to cycle into condensed display mode.

If it is possible to order side-by-side display and PFD/ND config, I imagine it cant be hard for Boeing to set the software up this way...
The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
 
Okie
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Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Configurations

Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:45 am

Quoting WestJetForLife (Thread starter):
Here's my question: can an airline have a 'hybrid' 737NG flight deck configuration, where all the EICAS information is on the upper DU whilst retaining the PFD/ND RNP layout, or is the avionic software logic 'locked' in such a way that it's one or the other?


In short you can have the information displayed in the lav if you wanted to put a display there or anywhere else and in any configuration you would want.
In long it is a matter paying for the software changes, programing and certification(if required). The costs would be quite expensive I would suspect. We are talking computer driven here, you in theory could have a selector switch or other input means to have many display configurations if you wanted to pay for. Second of all you would be developing yourself an orphan when software updates come along unless you had a large fleet in which to distribute the costs, sort of the expenses that keeps on taking so to speak.

Okie
 
tdscanuck
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Configurations

Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:07 am

Quoting WestJetForLife (Thread starter):
The "Southwest" configuration has all of the EICAS information on the top-center DU, located between the Captain's and First Officer's navigation/altitude display.

Technically, no 737NG has an EICAS system...it has engine indication but not the CAS (Crew Alerting System) part.

Quoting WestJetForLife (Thread starter):
Here's my question: can an airline have a 'hybrid' 737NG flight deck configuration, where all the EICAS information is on the upper DU whilst retaining the PFD/ND RNP layout, or is the avionic software logic 'locked' in such a way that it's one or the other?

That option does not exist in current software. As others have noted, there is no technical reason it can't be done but the certification hurdles would be pretty severe and the cost very high.

Tom.
 
AA737-823
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Configurations

Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:27 am

No, this is not currently possible. The DEU's come with either version of the software loaded; you can't mix and match what you like from each half. You can reinstall the software for PFD/ND, or you can install the software for Old-Skool, but not a hybrid of the two.

Incidentally, Continental is also a large-fleet operator of 737NG's that uses the old timey steam gauge layout....
 
PGNCS
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Configurations

Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:29 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
Quoting WestJetForLife (Thread starter):
The "Southwest" configuration has all of the EICAS information on the top-center DU, located between the Captain's and First Officer's navigation/altitude display.

Technically, no 737NG has an EICAS system...it has engine indication but not the CAS (Crew Alerting System) part.

DEFINITELY one of the ways the A-320 series surpasses any 737.

Has Boeing considered making a real EICAS system available for the 737, Tom? I grasp the "commonality with earlier models argument," but it is a huge improvement over the legacy 737 "split annunciator; search for the light" design.
 
AAR90
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Configurations

Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:45 am

The 737's digital displays can display anything the customer wants. The limiting factor is how much the customer wants to spend to get the display they want. To date, excepting WN, no other airline has been willing to put up the dollars to have something different than the "baseline" Boeing offering. WN negotiated the "steam gauge" option w/Boeing; hence, there are essentially only those two options.

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 5):
Has Boeing considered making a real EICAS system available for the 737, Tom? I grasp the "commonality with earlier models argument," but it is a huge improvement over the legacy 737 "split annunciator; search for the light" design.

Yes, Boeing investigated that option; however, the FAA (at least at that time) required a "new" type certificate if Boeing went that route. Since no airline was willing to help pay for the "new" certification process, that option was never pursued. Reportedly it was not difficult to adapt the 737 warning systems into an EICAS type system. The limiting factor was marketing and costs given the FAA position at that time.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
tdscanuck
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Configurations

Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:59 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 5):
DEFINITELY one of the ways the A-320 series surpasses any 737.

You'd hope so...the warning design of the 737 predates the A320 by about 20 years.

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 5):
Has Boeing considered making a real EICAS system available for the 737, Tom?

I'm sure somebody considered it but, as AAR90 described, I don't think there's any way to make it pay.

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 6):
To date, excepting WN, no other airline has been willing to put up the dollars to have something different than the "baseline" Boeing offering. WN negotiated the "steam gauge" option w/Boeing; hence, there are essentially only those two options.

WN isn't the only one using the EFIS display format.

Tom.
 
WestJetForLife
Topic Author
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Configurations

Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:43 am

Thanks for the responses, guys!

Nik
I need a drink.
 
AAR90
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 11:51 am

RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Configurations

Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:14 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 7):
WN isn't the only one using the EFIS display format.

Never said they were. They were the airline that negotiated for that option; hence, they "paid" for it to be developed and offered. Not in direct cash terms, but somewhere in their negotiated price(s). Once "developed" it became an option others could purchase... and some have.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
Fabo
Posts: 1150
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:30 am

RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Configurations

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:02 pm

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 9):
and some have.

Is there a list somewhere, or do you know? Beside WN and CO?
The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
 
YYZatcboy
Posts: 1011
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:15 am

RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Configurations

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:40 pm

Any way to get a pic of what you guys are talking about WRT the "Old school" guages that WN has? I'm going to do a search here but if you have anything specific that points out the differences I would appreciate it just in case I don't notice.

EDIT: Nevermind I spotted the difference right away.

[Edited 2011-09-19 10:03:47]
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