lucce
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New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:24 pm

I was just flicking through some photos here and came across this cabin photo of a Adria Airways A319
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Adria...d=d2129dccb1db68d32e783587aa9fc6cb

The picture shows that the traditional EXIT-signs have been replaced with running man-signs. Just wondering if this is specific only to Adria or will this become a norm? I know the 787 has similar signs as well. Nevertheless I think this will make them universally easier to understand.

Thoughts?
 
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seabosdca
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:19 pm

I've seen signs like that on a variety of aircraft, usually Airbus, operated by airlines in non-English-speaking countries.
 
star_world
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:30 pm

The green sign is the ISO standard. See here for some background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit_sign
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:36 pm

Quoting Lucce (Thread starter):
The picture shows that the traditional EXIT-signs have been replaced with running man-signs. Just wondering if this is specific only to Adria or will this become a norm? I know the 787 has similar signs as well. Nevertheless I think this will make them universally easier to understand.

Thoughts?

Would someone urgently in need of a visit to the washroom, think that it indicates the way to the lav? 

Just jokin'.....I'm sure it makes a lot of sense to have a universal sign like that, which all can understand.....
 
imatams
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:36 pm

There are quite a few interesting articles around discussing the big difference between European and North American signage (in general, not aviation specific) In essence European signing is very much pictogram based while North American signing is much more text-based.
In Emergency exit signs there's also the big difference in that they are green colored everywhere here but almost always red in North America. Something to do with theories of green being a 'save colour' that people will follow when in danger against red being a warning color that will see quicker in danger. Sorry pretty lame summary and couldn't find an link quickly but have a look online if you're interested

IM

edit.. found something! http://www.slate.com/id/2246107/

[Edited 2011-09-23 09:41:35]
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:46 pm

Quoting IMatAMS (Reply 4):
Something to do with theories of green being a 'save colour' that people will follow when in danger against red being a warning color that will see quicker in danger. Sorry pretty lame summary and couldn't find an link quickly but have a look online if you're interested

I personally think the European practice of pictures is better than the text system.....Europe has so many languages to deal with and that possibly is the reason they have adopted the pictograms....

On the color, I do feel that red would be more appropriate for the Exit signs.....green is a sort of passive color and not one that catches attention in a way that people are alerted to the sign.....

Just my 2c.....
 
imatams
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:08 pm

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 5):
On the color, I do feel that red would be more appropriate for the Exit signs.....green is a sort of passive color and not one that catches attention in a way that people are alerted to the sign.....

Apparently, according to people who study these things, red alerts people in the 'wrong' way. That is: Red signals 'stop' and 'Danger' almost universally, while green signals 'Go' and 'safety' which is why it is presumed better and is the ISO standard. Don't know. I'm more used to the European kind, and as to which one would work better for me, I hope never to find out!  
 
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Vasu
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:15 pm

Admittedly, I don't remember ever seeing this sign on an aeroplane before... just the usual red-on-white lettering!

Can anyone supply other pictures of it on a plane?
 
skymiler
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:15 pm

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 5):
On the color, I do feel that red would be more appropriate for the Exit signs.....green is a sort of passive color and not one that catches attention in a way that people are alerted to the sign.....



I believe that colour blind people can not discern red well ....
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ThomasCook
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:46 pm

Hi,

Looking at cabin pictures of other ANA and Adria aircraft, they carry the typical 'EXIT' signage so perhaps this is new?

Kind Regards
ThomasCook
A380 Crew
 
FriendlySkiesUK
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:25 pm

I thought the Boeing 787 was going with the standard EU exit signing? Green with person running etc... Is this correct?
Katie
 
Mir
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:34 pm

Quoting IMatAMS (Reply 6):
Apparently, according to people who study these things, red alerts people in the 'wrong' way. That is: Red signals 'stop' and 'Danger' almost universally, while green signals 'Go' and 'safety' which is why it is presumed better and is the ISO standard.

While that makes a lot of sense, it doesn't account for the fact that people in the US have been trained pretty much since birth that exit signs are red. I could easily see people getting confused and perhaps even passing up a green sign in search of a red one.

It makes sense to have one standard, but it's very difficult to get there from where we are now.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Markhkg
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:06 pm

Quoting FriendlySkiesUK (Reply 10):

I thought the Boeing 787 was going with the standard EU exit signing? Green with person running etc... Is this correct?

You're correct. This actually required revision of FAA regulations to allow for the green "running man" sign on Boeing aircraft. My understanding is that cabin crew will probably need to make an announcement (or state on the pre-recorded video) that "Emergency exits are marked with green signs" or something to that effect as part of the required briefing.

This was discussed briefly on another thread:
Red Lights For Exit (by macsog6 Oct 24 2010 in Tech Ops)
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
lucce
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:51 am

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 9):
Looking at cabin pictures of other ANA and Adria aircraft, they carry the typical 'EXIT' signage so perhaps this is new?

That's what I thought. I guess the EUR-OPS are not as specific about the type of exit sign as FARs are.

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
While that makes a lot of sense, it doesn't account for the fact that people in the US have been trained pretty much since birth that exit signs are red. I could easily see people getting confused and perhaps even passing up a green sign in search of a red one.

It makes sense to have one standard, but it's very difficult to get there from where we are now.

Well it's kind of like the metric system vs imperial measures thing according to wikipedia: pretty much everyone else is using the green signs. That's why I would like to see the signs to changed on the ground first in North America if they're going to change them to be consistent.

How ever it's not such a big deal since people in Europe now have to do exactly the same, just other way around. And not everyone even translates them to the carriers language: I've been told since before I knew any English "Tässä koneessa on kahdeksan uloskäyntiä, jotka kaikki ovat merkitty EXIT-kyltein". I have to say that if the new signs become standard I'll miss that phrase...
 
Fabo
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:35 pm

Quoting Markhkg (Reply 12):
My understanding is that cabin crew will probably need to make an announcement (or state on the pre-recorded video) that "Emergency exits are marked with green signs" or something to that effect as part of the required briefing.

Well, just a variation of what is now said - that the emergency exits are marked with sign "EXIT". But i like the word "IŠEJIMAS" the best, I think it is in lithuanian.
The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
 
bond007
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:34 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
While that makes a lot of sense, it doesn't account for the fact that people in the US have been trained pretty much since birth that exit signs are red. I could easily see people getting confused and perhaps even passing up a green sign in search of a red one.

It makes sense to have one standard, but it's very difficult to get there from where we are now.

I think we've had this conversation before but....

One thing that is consistent across the world (I think), is that red almost always means 'STOP'. The stop button is usually red, stop light red... green light means OK, go, red light means alert/problem,stop. This where I find the US system of red lights 'leading to the exit' a little inconsistent. To most of the world (and even the US), seeing a row of red lights would normally mean caution, stop, danger ... NOT that you need to actually follow them to exit safely. Taxiway lead-off lights are green, green/yellow ... to follow!


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
Mir
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:41 am

Quoting bond007 (Reply 15):
This where I find the US system of red lights 'leading to the exit' a little inconsistent.

It's very inconsistent, yes. But it's been the US standard for a long time, and people are used to it, so the inconsistency doesn't matter all that much when you're talking about people in the US.

I have no problem admitting it - if I were in a smoke-filled area, I would be looking for red lights before green lights, because my mind has been trained to associate red lights with an exit, even though pretty much every other application of red lights would indicate something to stay away from. It's what I'm used to, and it would not be easy to change the wiring in my brain, even if what it was changed to made more sense from a color symbology standpoint.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Makes sense to use symbols rather than multiple languages.....
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
bond007
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:19 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 16):
and people are used to it, so the inconsistency doesn't matter all that much when you're talking about people in the US.

I have no problem admitting it - if I were in a smoke-filled area, I would be looking for red lights before green lights, because my mind has been trained to associate red lights with an exit, even though pretty much every other application of red lights would indicate something to stay away from.

Most people aren't used to it, except those that fly regularly. It would be interesting to see what would actually happen in a situation where you really don't have time to think whether red means danger or not.

Of course, there is no data to suggest that passengers did the right, or wrong thing in an emergency, based upon the color of the light, and I understand that red lights are far more visible than green. You are basically following lights (of any color) to an exit.

Quoting Lucce (Reply 13):
That's why I would like to see the signs to changed on the ground first in North America

It is in some states. Again, a weird inconsistency that is allowed at a state level. In Maryland, exit signs are green!

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
Mir
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:18 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 18):
Most people aren't used to it, except those that fly regularly.

You don't even have to fly regularly, as most exit signs in buildings are red.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
bond007
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:23 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
You don't even have to fly regularly, as most exit signs in buildings are red.

I was referring to the red floor lights leading to the exit. I don't have an issue with the sign itself, just the fact that a line of red lights doesn't usually signal something you should follow or cross.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:59 am

Path should be indicated in Green Not Red.....People are tuned to avoid red & follow Green.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
hal9213
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:52 pm

Consistent or inconsistent, I think, its experience and habits what counts in the end. I remember my first time in the US, searching for an exit (non-emergency): It took the typical 2 seconds looking at "EXIT" to realise, that thats what I was actually looking for.
It also reminds me of the aircondition in my hotel room, guessing how much Fahrenheit I would be comfortable with ("Mmh, 60 sounds a lot!! uh my god, why am I freezing..."), or what the hell the warning "No hard shoulder for 200 yards" in the UK meant  

Still, in this world becoming more and more global, especially in international aviation, in the long run, everybody should work towards a global standard. No matter if it takes 5 or 15 years for people to get used to new signs, it will definately make the world easier for a later generation of people.
Imagine Airbus showing meters for altitude and km/h for speed  
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:34 pm

Quoting hal9213 (Reply 22):
Still, in this world becoming more and more global, especially in international aviation,

And one wonders WHY Domestic ATC still speak in regional languages & NOT English.....  
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
flyerboy1990
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:37 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 16):

Well said. I feel this was too.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 23):

Haha! Whatever...
Flown in: 712, 722, 73G, 738, 752, DC10, CR2, CR9, A319, A320 Want to fly in: A330, 767, 777, MD80, E170 series
 
bond007
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:14 pm

Quoting hal9213 (Reply 22):
Consistent or inconsistent, I think, its experience and habits what counts in the end.

Agreed, but there is little 'experience or habits' in following red lights to anywhere safe, unless you are a frequent flyer and used to being told that's what you should do. Red exit signs I get.

One might assume that if green lights were more visible than red, the floor lights in aircraft might in fact be green rather than red, since I believe this is probably the reason behind it.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
hal9213
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:09 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 25):
Agreed, but there is little 'experience or habits' in following red lights to anywhere safe

I rather meant the exit signs, which you will also encounter in day to day life.
However, in an aircraft emergency, I think you will instinctively know the nearest exit anyway regardless of signs, there really isnt much you could do wrong. (Go back, or go forward). Its like checking out a room your standing in, switch off the light for complete darkness, and you will still have memorized the approximate location of the door and any obstacle you saw just 1 minute ago, even without seeing it.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:17 pm

Quoting hal9213 (Reply 26):
However, in an aircraft emergency, I think you will instinctively know the nearest exit anyway regardless of signs, there really isnt much you could do wrong

The average sheeple will be happy to prove you wrong.  
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Markhkg
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:16 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 27):
The average sheeple will be happy to prove you wrong.

I believe evacuation research suggests that most passengers will attempt to go to the door to which they entered through. Which is why we have flight attendants screaming "RAUS RAUS" "GO ACROSS" "JUMP"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gqWe...U&feature=player_detailpage#t=138s
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:50 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 27):

The average sheeple will be happy to prove you wrong.
Quoting Markhkg (Reply 28):

I believe evacuation research suggests that most passengers will attempt to go to the door to which they entered through. Which is why we have flight attendants screaming "RAUS RAUS" "GO ACROSS" "JUMP"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gqWe...U&feature=player_detailpage#t=138s

Ever wondered why most Injuries occur in Emergency evacuations......Because people arn't used to it & some cant leave their bags behind.  
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Mir
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:01 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 25):
but there is little 'experience or habits' in following red lights to anywhere safe, unless you are a frequent flyer and used to being told that's what you should do. Red exit signs I get.

But then you have the issue of having green lights and red exit signs.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
bond007
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:54 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
But then you have the issue of having green lights and red exit signs.

OK, but that IS what most folks are familiar with ... exits signs are red (which I expect historically also came from visibilty), and green means go, follow,OK, etc.

Don't forget the exit sign is a 'sign' ... it isn't a red light, it either says the word 'exit' or some kind of image that we know as the exit sign.

I agree, it's also consistent. My only disagreement is in the red floor lights, because few other places do red lights mean something you should actually follow or go towards.

But ... I submit to the fact that we just follow the lights to an exit, and red is more visible ...


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:56 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 31):
Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
But then you have the issue of having green lights and red exit signs.

OK, but that IS what most folks are familiar with ... exits signs are red (which I expect historically also came from visibilty), and green means go, follow,OK, etc.

A nitpick here. It is not really what most folks are familiar with. It is what most Americans are familiar with.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
bond007
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:48 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 32):
A nitpick here. It is not really what most folks are familiar with. It is what most Americans are familiar with.

OK, but even more to my point  

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:49 am

Quoting bond007 (Reply 31):

But ... I submit to the fact that we just follow the lights to an exit, and red is more visible .

If one shows you a red streak of arrows & green streak of arrows on the floor.....which route are you likely to take  
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
bond007
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:01 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 34):
If one shows you a red streak of arrows & green streak of arrows on the floor.....which route are you likely to take

But I think the point is that I might not be able to see the green ones!

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: New Kind Of Exit Sign

Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:46 am

Quoting bond007 (Reply 35):

But I think the point is that I might not be able to see the green ones!

Why not if the green is reflective green...it works fine.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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