cyxuk
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For What Reasons Would A Carrier Be Rejcted Etops

Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:53 pm

As the title says; I am curious as to what the reasons for a carrier to be rejected ETOPS certification if they had the appropriate equipment. Examples are appreciated
 
radicaldudejom
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RE: For What Reasons Would A Carrier Be Rejcted Etops

Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:58 pm

I believe too many engine problems within a certain amount of time is a big one. Not sure what the figures are, but I'm sure someone here does.
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roseflyer
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RE: For What Reasons Would A Carrier Be Rejcted Etops

Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:00 pm

In the United States an airplane fleet looses ETOPS if it has inflight shutdowns at a rate greater than .01% of all flights on a twin engine airplane model (IIRC). There are many other reasons why ETOPS can be lost, but excessively high shutdown rate is the easiest one to define.

Single airplanes in a fleet losing ETOPS capability for a given number of flights is also possible. In addition to high shutdown rate, open deferred items, unapproved maintenance, etc can restrict operations.
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HAL
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RE: For What Reasons Would A Carrier Be Rejcted Etops

Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:25 pm

If an airline doesn't keep the aircraft maintained to ETOPS standards, or lets an aircraft fly an ETOPS leg with a maintenance deferral that may be okay for domestic flights but not for ETOPS, there will be repercussions. Training for the flight crews needs to be up to regulatory standards too. There's also an enormous amount of paperwork involved in the maintenance and training areas. If there are failures in keeping appropriate records (even if the actual procedures were accomplished), the ETOPS certifcate can be pulled too. Any one of these, if repeated or done knowing they're violating the ETOPS regulations, could cause the loss of the certificate.

HAL
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HAWK21M
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RE: For What Reasons Would A Carrier Be Rejcted Etops

Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:08 am

Poor record of Engine reliability in terms of IFSDs in the past duration & number of Flights/IFSD encountered in the past.

Not maintaining of the serviceability of the needed equipment to keepthe Aircraft ETOPS ready.
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YYZYYT
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RE: For What Reasons Would A Carrier Be Rejcted Etops

Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:42 pm

Quoting cyxuk (Thread starter):
Examples are appreciated

I am not sure if you are limiting your question to "rejection" of an application, or including loss of certification...

If the latter, the Azores glider incident resulted in a temporary loss of Air Transat's A330 ETOPS rating (and a downgrading of the entire remainder of the fleet).

The attached story contains a summary at the end; it refers to the fact that ETOPS authority was suspended immediately follwoing the incident (August 24) and partially restored on September 7. Full ETOPS rating was restored the follwoing May.

I wonder how much extra fuel AT ended up buring because of that?

http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/images/airtransat/Fuelloss2.html

[Edited 2011-10-06 09:46:00]
 
cyxuk
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RE: For What Reasons Would A Carrier Be Rejcted Etops

Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:19 pm

Thanks for the replies.
I was more thinking of why an application for ETOPS would be "rejected", but that is fascinating to know how some ETOPS certifications were pulled!

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