josekmlb
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Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:12 pm

Why did they do this flight was it a performance test on the bird. I saw the track on flightaware so I thought I would ask you guys.....


http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...0/history/20111102/2100Z/KPAE/KPAE
 
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Stitch
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:25 pm

If that is a 747-8 Intercontinental it might be related to the Extended Operations certification program. Or they could just be collecting NAMS data for validating their performance equations.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:28 pm

Direct: 0 sm Planned: 9,976 Flown: 9,536 sm

Didn't know the 748 could do that on a single tank of gas    Probably with no load...wonder how many hours they logged  
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jetblueguy22
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:47 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):
wonder how many hours they logged  

Looks about 21 hours! God that musta been a long ride! Though Im assuming there was back up crews.
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josekmlb
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:13 pm

Thats a full day on a plane I would of gone nuts   
 
CPH-R
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:20 pm

Looks like they attempted to visit each of the Lower 48 states, though for some reason they steered clear of West Virginia...
 
josekmlb
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:45 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 5):

Good eye I did not even notice that
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:52 pm

Quoting josekmlb (Reply 4):
Thats a full day on a plane I would of gone nuts

Sleep. Read a book. Also a test aircraft will not be packed full of monkeys in cattle class.
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canoecarrier
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:22 am

I know they've been doing simulated commercial operations lately.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
If that is a 747-8 Intercontinental it might be related to the Extended Operations certification program.

I think it was an 8i. But why did that matter? I thought Boeing was doing ETOPS certifications on both freight and pax versions?
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747classic
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:54 am

It was RC003/L/N 1440, call sign BOE440A, the third 747-8 Intercontinental test aircraft, performing ETOPS and/or NAMS tests., see reply 48 and further :

Official 747-8 Flight Tracking & Production Part 7 (by wilco737 Oct 27 2011 in Civil Aviation)
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Stitch
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:18 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 8):
I think it was an 8i. But why did that matter? I thought Boeing was doing ETOPS certifications on both freight and pax versions?

That is correct, but the 747-8F has already completed her ETOPs certification, to my knowledge.
 
PC12Fan
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:23 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
Thats a full day on a plane I would of gone nuts

Sleep. Read a book. Also a test aircraft will not be packed full of monkeys in cattle class.

Big plane. Experimental for that matter. I would think a walkabout would be easy to do.
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dw747400
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:54 pm

A large portion of the flight took place at FL420 (assuming flight aware data is correct which can be a big assumption to make). That is very unusual...
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ANITIX87
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:08 pm

They flew over every single state except West Virginia and Pennsylvania (unless you count the little piece within the St. Lawrence). Wonder why they didn't get any love from Boeing, especially since Philadelphia has one of their biggest offices!

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tdscanuck
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:34 am

Quoting dw747400 (Reply 12):
A large portion of the flight took place at FL420 (assuming flight aware data is correct which can be a big assumption to make). That is very unusual...

Why unusual? They almost certainly weren't carrying payload (in order to be able to fly that far) and they're certified up to FL421. If you want minimum fuel burn, go high. The 787 is certified to FL431 and you catch them up at FL430 on flightaware fairly often.

Tom.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:17 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 11):


Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
Thats a full day on a plane I would of gone nuts

Sleep. Read a book. Also a test aircraft will not be packed full of monkeys in cattle class.

Big plane. Experimental for that matter. I would think a walkabout would be easy to do.

More than walking can be done. That airplane isn't configured with any seats as it is a BBJ (interior fitted after delivery). The engineers and extra crew could be playing football in the cabin of the plane since it is just one huge open area with nothing in it.
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murchmo
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:49 am

lame, they didnt spell anything out. A while back the wrote "747" across the US. Also its very common for them to use a high altitude like that so as to stay above most traffic.
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dw747400
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:35 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 14):
Why unusual? They almost certainly weren't carrying payload (in order to be able to fly that far) and they're certified up to FL421

It's an operational issue, not a technical limitation--its both possible and safe. FL420 falls above RVSM airspace, where 2000 foot altitude separation again comes into play. For most operations, it is not available. You can do FL410, 430, 450, etc... but 420 is not a "valid" altitude most of the time.

Thus, the 787 at FL430 is much less unusual than the 748 at FL420. The burn is better higher of course, so they might have gotten approval for this specific flight. An ATCer might be able to shed more light on how often this happens and how flexible ATC is at issuing FL420 (or 440 or 460 for that matter...).
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canoecarrier
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:25 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
That is correct, but the 747-8F has already completed her ETOPs certification, to my knowledge.

I asked today. It was definitely an ETOPS certification flight. So was the Barbados flight.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 14):
They almost certainly weren't carrying payload (in order to be able to fly that far) and they're certified up to FL421.

This particular plane only had something like 12 seats behind the cockpit door for flight test crew. There wasn't even simulated ballast for passengers. Just a boring 18 hours for the folks doing their job.
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KELPkid
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:58 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 14):
Why unusual? They almost certainly weren't carrying payload (in order to be able to fly that far) and they're certified up to FL421. If you want minimum fuel burn, go high. The 787 is certified to FL431 and you catch them up at FL430 on flightaware fairly often.

So, the 748 isn't certified up to FL452 like the rest of the 747 family? That's news to me  
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tdscanuck
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:11 am

Quoting dw747400 (Reply 17):
An ATCer might be able to shed more light on how often this happens and how flexible ATC is at issuing FL420

Up that high there is relatively little traffic, US ATC is usually pretty amenable to odd requests from experimental/test registered aircraft, and you can get a *lot* more flexibly when you don't care about your route or getting weird temporary vectors and offsets.

I would say less than 1% of the time I can't get the altitude (or altitude block) I want provided I'm willing to wait a few minutes, take a weird vector, or just call ARTCC the day before.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 19):
So, the 748 isn't certified up to FL452 like the rest of the 747 family?

Well, I'm looking at the AFM...don't know what else to say.

Tom.
 
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747classic
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RE: Kpae 747 Flew Across The Us Back To Kpae

Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:03 am

All 747 series up to the 744 are certified up to FL 451, only the 747-8 series is (-8F) or will be (-8I) certified to a ceiling of FL 421, probably limited by the new wing profile.

The only exception is the 747-400 Large Cargo Freighter (LCF), only certified up to FL431.

See : http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...070737c/$FILE/A20WE%20Rev%2047.pdf

[Edited 2011-11-06 01:04:04]
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