spudsmac
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Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:05 am

So, the other day I was flying and a solo student from another flight school flipped his skyhawk in between a taxiway and runway. We had no idea if he was okay at first and ATC shut down the airport. I heard from another instructor that he has heard of people getting violations from the FAA for running across a taxiway to offer assistance after an aircraft accident.

Anyone ever heard of this? I can see how there would be an issue if there were aircraft moving around, but in an emergency like this, I think as long as precautions are taken (look left and right before crossing), there should be no violation.
 
runner13
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RE: Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:37 am

I was in this situation a few years ago, I was in a ops vehicle on a tour one night. We were right next to a runway and witnessed a small plane land hard, and crashed right in front of us. The ops vehicle requested permission to assist, but was denied as emergency vehicles were already there. The ops vehicle was later able to assist as they had to get pilot information, everyone walked away by the way, but immediately following an accident ATC has way too much going on to worry about random people running to a plane crash. I would not do it unless it was in a public place, airports have plenty of people to handle it. But to answer your question yes it is punishable as no one is allowed on active taxiways or runways without prior permission.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:09 am

Do your human duty.

You know what's right in the gut. If you're there and can render assistance, do it.

Worry about getting busted later  

The only regs I'm aware of are NTSB ones, about not disturbing mail or wreckage (once all aircraft occupants are safe-you are allowed to do what you need to get people out alive!).
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:32 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):
Do your human duty.

  

Obviously take the necessary precautions by being aware of the surroundings.

Out here Cat 3 VDP [Vehicle driving permit] holders can move to the runway & the vehicles are equipped with VHF.Chances are Emergency response vehicles will reach much before you could.

On other areas of the Airport.....Human duty comes first.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
kpitrrat
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RE: Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:01 am

I worked at an airport and always wondered what the protocol was for such an incident. As a poster put it earlier do your human duty. I figured some would jump in a tug or other vehicle and go out to do what they could but I also understand that there are obviously emergency services trained for such situations. I just feel it would be hard to stand there and not try and help in any way.
 
mmedford
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RE: Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:39 am

Remember it's still an active airport...vehicles out on the AOA have radios and are paying attention on freq. Having someone just running out there put themselves in danger.

Plus there are several post accident procedures that have to be followed for the NTSB, FAA, and Airport Ops.
ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
 
PC12Fan
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RE: Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:57 am

1- Do whatever it takes to protect human lives.

2- Do whatever it takes to preserve the accident scene.

3- Do whatever it takes to get the accident scene back to normal operations.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
sccutler
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RE: Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:14 am

What KELPkid said. You do the right thing, and if someone wants to violate you, well, karma will get them in the end.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:18 am

On most occassions....The Emergency services will reach earlier than the Individual & well equipped to handle the scene.
Just be aware of the surroundings while rushing in to assist.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
spudsmac
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RE: Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:50 pm

Yeah, the whole reason why I'm asking is because there are no emergency services on the airport where I am. It's a class delta with no air carriers coming in, so I don't think they're required to have services on field. We have a lot of training aircraft, and it's the vast majority of traffic at the field so we have a good number of mishaps here. Thanks for all the responses though.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:22 am

Quoting spudsmac (Reply 9):
We have a lot of training aircraft

Shouldn't there be Emergency services on that Airport/airfield when aircraft operate.This is the norms even outside Aviation too when there is a chance of something going wrong.....
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
rwessel
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RE: Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:09 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Shouldn't there be Emergency services on that Airport/airfield when aircraft operate.This is the norms even outside Aviation too when there is a chance of something going wrong.....

Perhaps for fields handling airliners, but there are a vast number of very small airfields out there. How much emergency service is necessary for a 2500ft grass strip where half a dozen singles and a couple of dozen gliders are based? Does the big red fire extinguisher bolted to the wall of the hanger count?
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:30 pm

Quoting rwessel (Reply 11):
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Shouldn't there be Emergency services on that Airport/airfield when aircraft operate.This is the norms even outside Aviation too when there is a chance of something going wrong.....

Perhaps for fields handling airliners, but there are a vast number of very small airfields out there. How much emergency service is necessary for a 2500ft grass strip where half a dozen singles and a couple of dozen gliders are based? Does the big red fire extinguisher bolted to the wall of the hanger count?

Every glider field around here I´ve seen has a clapped out van or car parked beside the operation coordinator´s office ("Flugleiter", often located in a building resembling a control tower, or a mobile "tower" built on the back of a truck, even though it is not officially a controlled field). This van will contain some fire extinguishers, basic rescue tools like crash axes, bolt cutters, wood and metal saws, hydraulic jacks, etc., plus a stretcher and a large first aid kit.

Jan
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Fabo
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RE: Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:36 pm

On our orientation, in an aeroclub that runs an uncontrolled airfield, we were told where certain equipment was and in some cases how to use it.
eg

In glider hangar, there is a water extighuisher on the left wall, there is a foam extinghuisher on the right wall, and there is a first aid kit on the back wall. Dont put electric fires out with water, use foam.

No ambulance on the field, although we do have an old fire truck, not sure if it works really, or is just there from when army was using the field. While we mostly do have some cars handy to approach possible scene, those are private vehicles.
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57AZ
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RE: Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:21 pm

Many General Aviation fields in the US have no fire equipment other than extinguishers on field. Those airfields depend on the local fire department for fire/rescue services as it would be cost prohibitive to lease or purchase a fire engine, maintain it, train crew, etc. A used truck in servicable condition can run anywhere from $10k to $100k and new builds are upwards of $300k, depending on equipment. At our airfield, response time would be about five minutes and who knows what truck the fire department will dispatch. There was a big deal made about the last fire response-took too long and they sent the wrong truck. End result: one hangar completely destroyed.
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