747400sp
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:29 pm

The Boeing 777, is the safest airliner ever built! You may ask, what is my proof to back this statement up, and would tell you, look at the a/c track record. There has never been a death on board a T-7, and I believe there's only been two hull loses ( BA and I read an Egypt Air). Take in mind, that the 777 is almost 20 years old, and have this track record, and no airliner flying today, can say that. Yes, there has never been a death on an A340, but A340s has a good amount of hull loses. So, what do you think is Boeing secret to building this ultra safe plane?


PS: I am still a 747 man, but you have to give credit where credit is due.
 
XXXX10
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:02 am

There is no secret, modern aircraft are very reliable and statiscally long haul aircraft are always safer.
Another factor is that the 777 has been operated by main-line carriers.

The 747-400 has only had two hull losses AFAIK one in HGK when one failed to stop and went off of the end of the runway (no fatalities) and one that crahed after a fire in the cargo hold.

There is nothing that makes the 777 any safer than other aircraft- accidents are rarely related to aircraft type.
 
my235
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:10 am

A very interesting question. I would guess it has something to do with Boeing having a lot of previous models to fall back on. Of course it's a completely different bird. But they've had all those other models as test dummies.
 
Braniff747SP
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:15 am

Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 1):

There is no secret, modern aircraft are very reliable and statiscally long haul aircraft are always safer.
Another factor is that the 777 has been operated by main-line carriers.

The 747-400 has only had two hull losses AFAIK one in HGK when one failed to stop and went off of the end of the runway (no fatalities) and one that crahed after a fire in the cargo hold.

Was the recent OZ Cargo not a 744? I know 5X in DXB was...
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
zanl188
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:16 am

Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 1):
The 747-400 has only had two hull losses AFAIK one in HGK when one failed to stop and went off of the end of the runway (no fatalities) and one that crahed after a fire in the cargo hold.

There's at least one more... perhaps more...


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Max Q
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:56 am

Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 1):

There is nothing that makes the 777 any safer than other aircraft- accidents are rarely related to aircraft type.

Disagree, as an example look at the MD11.



The 777 safety record comes down simply to a good solid Boeing design.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
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Starlionblue
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:12 am

If you remove all accidents not related to the aircraft (pilot error, WX, terrorism, hijacking and so forth) you'll find that almost major airliner from the last 40 years is extremely safe.

Take the 330/340. Two fatal accidents (one during testing), both attributable to pilot error with one partly attributable to a problem with the aircraft. So 777 has 0 and and 330/340 has ½ fatal accidents attributable to the aircraft. Does this make the 330/340 much less safe than the 777? Not really.

As Max Q says, the 777 is a solid design from a manufacturer that has been in the business for a long time.

Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 1):
The 747-400 has only had two hull losses AFAIK one in HGK when one failed to stop and went off of the end of the runway (no fatalities) and one that crahed after a fire in the cargo hold.

There have been 5 hull losses on the 747-400. http://aviation-safety.net/database/...104%&cat=%1&sorteer=datekey&page=1

Quoting Max Q (Reply 5):
Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 1):

There is nothing that makes the 777 any safer than other aircraft- accidents are rarely related to aircraft type.

Disagree, as an example look at the MD11.

A rare example of a modern airliner with flying characteristics that are, if not dangerous, at least less benign than most.

[Edited 2011-11-28 17:13:41]
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Buyantukhaa
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:23 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 5):
The 777 safety record comes down simply to a good solid Boeing design.

And some luck - if the LHR BA aircraft's engines had flamed out just a minute earlier the outcome would have been different. And that accident was due to design (and insufficient certification standards).
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roseflyer
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:22 am

It's the design and the latest standards enforced by the FAA. The FAA keeps increasing the number of requirements and redundancy keeps getting better and better. For example, a 737NG would be basically impossible to certify from scratch with today's requirements. The FAA allows grandfathering of designs that have shown adequate reliability.

Another factor with the 777 is their high price and relatively limited used market. The 777 has not made its way to many second tier carriers. Maintenance is vital to preventing accidents and in parts of the world with less oversight, maintenance deferrals can add up and redundancy can be lost which leads to accidents.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Mir
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:58 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safty Record?

Luck.

Had the BA038 incident happened a bit earlier, we'd probably be talking about deaths. And then the 340 would be the safest airliner out there.

I'm certainly not trying to denigrate the 777, because it's clearly a very well-designed airplane, but pretty much any modern commercial airliner is going to be so well-designed (and the environment in which they operate is also going to be so well-designed) that it's difficult to accurately compare any of them.

-Mir
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Max Q
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:18 am

You might make the point that the BA accident was the fault of RR, however, as pointed out the engines were installed on the Aircraft that was certified with the joint effort of Boeing and the FAA.


So Boeing is not blameless.



Still, another superb Aircraft from Boeing.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
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Starlionblue
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:01 am

The 777 is certainly a superb aircraft, as market dominance and customer satisfaction clearly show.

Beyond that, however, when you're talking a couple of accidents caused by aircraft issues at most for a type over years of operation, all these types are "safe". Comparing an aircraft with 0 hull losses to one with 2 or 4 does not really give you a comparative basis when it comes to relative safety.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
rwessel
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:02 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
Had the BA038 incident happened a bit earlier, we'd probably be talking about deaths. And then the 340 would be the safest airliner out there.

Alternatively It's possible that a few more seconds of pumping might have cleared the blockage, and avoided the crash completely.
 
tsugambler
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:40 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safty Record?

Not crashing.
 
roseflyer
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What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:09 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 11):

Beyond that, however, when you're talking a couple of accidents caused by aircraft issues at most for a type over years of operation, all these types are "safe". Comparing an aircraft with 0 hull losses to one with 2 or 4 does not really give you a comparative basis when it comes to relative safety.

Comparing hull losses as a measure of safety is not very easy and leads to statistical insignificance.

What the FAA does, is has the airlines report in flight shut downs, diversions, air turn backs, and rejected takeoffs. These feed up into a database that is reliable and points to airlines and specific types of airplanes where there are problems happening. The FAA forces airlines to report and can impose penalties for unreliable performance. That's a more clear indicator of which airplanes and airlines are safer. A full hull loss is usually characterized by a series of events, and can't be tracked easily.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:28 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
Had the BA038 incident happened a bit earlier, we'd probably be talking about deaths. And then the 340 would be the safest airliner out there.

And had AF 358 just gone slightly different and the flight attendants not have been so skilled, the A340 would have had 250+ deaths. Then the 777 would be hands-down "safer" by statistics.

%$#@ happens. Thankfully each accident turned out the way it did and those 500 people are still walking around today.
 
XXXX10
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:06 pm

Looks like I missed a couple of 744 incidents, my point is that it is still a safe design, accidents from on-board fires can happen in any type.

I am sure that all modern types are just as safe as far as design and construction are concerned.
 
Northwest727
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:22 am

Surprised nobody has mentioned it, but at the time of the 777's design, it was supposedly the most widely tested commercial airliner in history, surpassing the 747. I think the A380 may have since taken its place, but Boeing spent a lot of money and time into developing the 777, and it paid off...the 777 was made right the first time. Not exactly the case with the 787, but I guess that's what happens when you let the marketing team develop the product, not the actual aerospace engineers.
 
Viscount724
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:31 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
The Boeing 777, is the safest airliner ever built

That's not correct. The A319 is also fatality free after 16 years and far more (over 1300) have been delivered than 777s and they fly far more sectors every day. The only A319 hull loss after 16 years of service is a NW aircraft that was taxied into the terminal building/jetway at LGA by maintenance staff while being positioned to the gate in 2003.

As someone else said, today's aircraft are so safe the differences in accident records from type to type are largely a matter of luck.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:31 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
The Boeing 777, is the safest airliner ever built

That's not correct. The A319 is also fatality free after 16 years and far more (over 1300) have been delivered than 777s and they fly far more sectors every day. The only A319 hull loss after 16 years of service is a NW aircraft that was taxied into the terminal building/jetway at LGA by maintenance staff while being positioned to the gate in 2003.

You can't count the 319 by itself. It's part of the 318-321 family which for most intents and purposes is the same aircraft in different lengths. Just like the 737-600/700/800/900 (or the 330/340).
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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autothrust
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:37 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 15):
And had AF 358 just gone slightly different and the flight attendants not have been so skilled, the A340 would have had 250+ deaths. Then the 777 would be hands-down "safer" by statistics.

Utter nonsense, apples with oranges comparison. AF358 was caused by pilot errors and bad weather in a chain of events.

On the other hand the BA 777 accident, was a technical caused problem within the RR-Engine.
 
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Ward86IND
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:43 am

How about the ERJ-145 family? Never a fatality, over 1000 built. I think it takes the cake, being that it is largely operated by less-experienced regional crews and many more cycles a day relative to larger mainline aircraft.

And although it is a fact that the vast majority of accidents are directly caused by pilot error, aircraft are also designed to allow pilots to get out of the bad situations they put themselves in, some more than others.

As far as the B73X and A32X argument, I don't think you can consider them one and the same. I think it is interesting the relatively fewer accidents you see on the 73G and A319 compared to the 738 and A320. For example you will see that higher approach speeds lead to more overruns. Again, pilot error in this example, but I would rather touch down halfway down the runway in pouring rain doing 120 knots in an A319 than 140 in a 738.
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Starlionblue
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:48 am

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 21):
As far as the B73X and A32X argument, I don't think you can consider them one and the same. I think it is interesting the relatively fewer accidents you see on the 73G and A319 compared to the 738 and A320. For example you will see that higher approach speeds lead to more overruns. Again, pilot error in this example, but I would rather touch down halfway down the runway in pouring rain doing 120 knots in an A319 than 140 in a 738.

Fair enough on the overruns. However the 320 came into service years before the 319 and so got all the "teething" problems. If the 319 had gone into service first it would likely have had those accidents instead.


If we have to separate marks we also need to separate the 777 and 330/340 variants.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Stealthz
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:56 pm

The basic problem with this question is that modern airliners are so safe that there is no valid statistical comparison.

The data sample is far to small to make any valid assumptions from.. the next pilot error or incorecctly tightened fastener has the potential to skew the stats so as to make all previous comparisons meaningless!
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bueb0g
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:43 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
Take the 330/340. Two fatal accidents (one during testing),

Three fatal accidents; the flight test accident you stated, AF 447, and the Afriqiyah A330 crash at Tripolli last year that killed 104 people.
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Starlionblue
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:21 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 23):
The basic problem with this question is that modern airliners are so safe that there is no valid statistical comparison.

The data sample is far to small to make any valid assumptions from.. the next pilot error or incorecctly tightened fastener has the potential to skew the stats so as to make all previous comparisons meaningless!

That, as we say in Swedish, is the core of the poodle. Basic statistics will tell you that unless you have way more incidents, and indeed way more incidents that are at least similar, you cannot say that any given modern airliner is safer than any other. What you can say is that they are all very safe.

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 24):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
Take the 330/340. Two fatal accidents (one during testing),

Three fatal accidents; the flight test accident you stated, AF 447, and the Afriqiyah A330 crash at Tripolli last year that killed 104 people.

Oops. Thanks for reminding me. I keep forgetting that one for some reason...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
nomadd22
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:25 pm

Has anyone with experience ever speculated on the possible outcome if AF 447 had been a 777?
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cmf
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:49 pm

Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 16):
accidents from on-board fires can happen in any type

They can. But it is much more than that. Newer models are less likely to have fires. (Freight isn't the only source.) And they are likely to handle fires better.
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bueb0g
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:18 pm

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 26):
Has anyone with experience ever speculated on the possible outcome if AF 447 had been a 777?

Yes, but I think it's mainly fruitless speculation; sure, it's possible that the use of the stick shaker, along with different stall warning logic could have created a little less confusion - not to forger that the 777, by virtue of using different pitot tubes, would likely but have got into the unreliable IAS situation. But the aircraft itself wasn't really the root cause of the accident - the root cause was the limitation of human - computer interaction, which causes problems on Boeing's too (e.g the Turkish crash at Amsterdam), so I think the best thing to do it to learn these lessons and move on, not speculate on what might have happened had the aircraft been different.
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prebennorholm
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:09 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 10):
You might make the point that the BA accident was the fault of RR, however, as pointed out the engines were installed on the Aircraft that was certified with the joint effort of Boeing and the FAA.

So Boeing is not blameless.

Sure right. But an AD following the BA38 investigation mandated exactly the same modification on the Trent 500 and 700 fuel-oil heat exchanger, which was found guilty for the Trent 800 malfunction on BA38.

So in some way this accident contributed equally to making RR powered B777 AND A330/A340 safer.

That said, the BA38 accident had an extremely lucky outcome. Even the many injured pax will agree on that. First that they made it over the roads into the airport, then extremely good piloting, and finally that they actually landed on mostly mud which prevented a terrible fire from the massive fuel leak from the center tank. It was so close to become a most terrible disaster that just thinking about it makes me sick.

There are many recommendations in the final report. One of them was concerning the landing gear.

The landing gear is fixed to the rear wing spar which doubles as rear wall of the center fuel tank. One landing gear was torn off while the other went up through the wing, destroying the rear wing spar in the process, and causing the massive fuel leak.

The recommendation tells Boeing to consider modifications so overstressing the landing gear not automatically ruptures the center fuel tank, and thereby reduces risk of - or magnitude of - post impact fire.

Certainly not an easy recommendation to fulfill on existing planes. But this recommendation may have a significant impact on future airliner design.

I dare to bet a considerable pile of money on Airbus not applying for certification of the A350 without having taken this recommendation into account. Even if it adds a few hundred lbs to the OEW, reduces rance by a few dozen miles, and increases fuel burn by 0.0....? percent.
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David L
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:59 am

In the BA38 incident, I would suggest that, along with the good luck already mentioned, there was also a certain amount of "bad luck" in that the precise mechanism of the ice build-up on the face of the fuel/oil heat exchanger hadn't been predicted. It took quite a long investigation to determine how it could have happened since the critical sequence of events is, apparently, quite rare. Cue the well-worn cliché... "hindsight is always 20/20"

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 26):
Has anyone with experience ever speculated on the possible outcome if AF 447 had been a 777?


Yes, quite often in the many threads about that accident. Stick-shaker v. aural "STALL... STALL..."? Is one really better than the other? While it might be less likely for the pitots to become blocked on a 777, it has happened. It's also worth noting that other instances involving Airbus aircraft were resolved successfully.

On the whole, I agree with the comments that the 777 is as safe as it is for the same reasons that all the latest airliners are much safer than earlier examples.
 
MEA-707
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:43 am

Also, and I may open a can of worms here, it's because of the airlines who operate 777s are among the safer airlines themselves.
Many older airplanes saw their safety statistics plummet when small fly by night carriers became their typical operator, see the older 737s and MD-80s which had a string of accidents in Africa and Indonesia a few years ago.
When/if more 2nd hand 777s end up with airlines like Lion Air, Hewa Bora, SBA (Venezuela) the chance for a crash will increase. Actually if I ever wake up reading the miserable headline '777 crashed' the chances are more likely that it's a PIA, TAAG, Kenya, Biman, Transaero, Egyptair or Vietnam Airlines machine which fly about 50 combined then any of the other 930. I know people will hate me for writing this but statistics proove that the safety factor is more the airline then the airplane.
The Embraer 145 with 1100 built has been mentioned rightfully. It must be a great aircraft but also a factor is that more then half of its fleet is placed with airlines like American Eagle, ExpressJet (Continental) who really know what they are doing.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:26 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 31):
I know people will hate me for writing this but statistics proove that the safety factor is more the airline then the airplane.

I promise not to hate you. You are completely correct. I often say that a determined pilot can crash even the safest aircraft. That determined pilot does not work for LH, BA, CX or AA...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
787atPAE
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:59 pm

Wouldn't the MSG-3 process be given some credit for the safety rate of the 777? I guess ARP4754, DO-178/254 (and on and on) come into play as well...
 
tdscanuck
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:21 am

Quoting 787atPAE (Reply 33):
Wouldn't the MSG-3 process be given some credit for the safety rate of the 777?

Not really...the 737NG is also an MSG-3 airplane and, though plenty safe, isn't quite on par with the 777.

Tom.
 
ssteve
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:21 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 22):

If we have to separate marks we also need to separate the 777 and 330/340 variants.

77W and 77L are doing pretty good, eh?!
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:36 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
As someone else said, today's aircraft are so safe the differences in accident records from type to type are largely a matter of luck.

Today's commercial aviation is so safe that luck (good or bad) plays a role in skewing the statistics. To take an extreme example, Concorde went from the safest airliner ever built to one of the worst in the minutes that it took for the Paris accident to happen.

Some links to statistics.

http://www.jacdec.de/statistics/types/Types.htm

http://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&rc...hw&sig2=d31zBurj7H-H5NokzG34Tw

[Edited 2011-12-03 00:37:03]
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:00 am

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 36):
Today's commercial aviation is so safe that luck (good or bad) plays a role in skewing the statistics. To take an extreme example, Concorde went from the safest airliner ever built to one of the worst in the minutes that it took for the Paris accident to happen.

I see what you mean but it is a fallacy to say that Concorde suddenly went from being extremely safe to unsafe as the result of one accident. In fact, Concorde was just as safe after the accident as it was before.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
pelican
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:35 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 32):
That determined pilot does not work for LH, BA, CX or AA...

But at least one worked for AF   
So I wouldn't be too sure about this assumption.

pelican
 
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seabosdca
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:15 pm

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 36):
Today's commercial aviation is so safe that luck (good or bad) plays a role in skewing the statistics.

   Crashes on modern types are near-random events of astonishingly low probability.

Beyond the occasional design lemon (MD-11), I think all modern types are essentially equally safe, but still all vulnerable to non-aircraft-related crashes. The 777 and the ERJ have just had better luck than most.

This is not at all to denigrate the hard work of the 777 and ERJ teams in making aircraft that meet or exceed the extremely high safety standards today.
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:07 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 37):
I see what you mean but it is a fallacy to say that Concorde suddenly went from being extremely safe to unsafe as the result of one accident. In fact, Concorde was just as safe after the accident as it was before.

Of course. The same vulnerabilities were latent in the design, we just learned of them through the accident.

Which was my point. Because accidents are so rare and the safety level in general is so high, the lack of an accident may simply mean that the holes in the Swiss cheese never aligned. A particular aircraft condition never appeared in bad weather when the pilots were not paying attention, for instance.

To illustrate this, consider ten equally safe aircraft types that each have a natural tendency to crash once per 10 million flights. Now assume that each type has flown a million flights. All types taken together might perhaps have that one crash, but it has happened to just one of the types. 9 types have a perfect safety record, 1 has a 1/million safety record. If the likelihood of a crash is so small that entire aircraft families may go through their life without a single crash, it becomes difficult to compare to accident statistics to each other.
 
Chamonix
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:26 pm

We forgot the Dassault Mercure!
Not a single scratch!
 
Chamonix
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:34 pm

 
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Starlionblue
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:12 am

Quoting pelican (Reply 38):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 32):
That determined pilot does not work for LH, BA, CX or AA...


But at least one worked for AF
So I wouldn't be too sure about this assumption.

Fair enough.   But even so I'd rather fly AF than Central African Revolutionary Airways.
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brons2
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:56 pm

Has anyone ever considered ranking airliner safety by number of ADs issued by the applicable regulatory bodies (FAA/EASA/JAA/etc)?
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roseflyer
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:14 pm

That's also a challenge. Bigger fleet sizes are going to get more AD's as there are more events happening and more findings to recommend fixes. However every airplane is going to have some. It's hard to normalize.

I'd also like to propose that the larger fleets are almost always going to be safer. They have much more attention on them from more operators and larger engineering pools at the manufacturers. A small production airplane like the Concorde and Mercure do not have those benefits and continuous safety improvements are rare. Every airplane has design problems, AD's are what fixes them.

As I said earlier, the FAA does it by inflight shutdowns, diversions, air turnbacks and RTOs per cycle. That's probably the best way to measure safety.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:46 pm

Quoting Chamonix (Reply 41):
We forgot the Dassault Mercure!
Not a single scratch!

Yeah, all ten of them.

The 777 has, what, over 960 in service? And only one "scratch" in which most people walked away without a scratch.
 
Stealthz
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:49 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 46):
Yeah, all ten of them.

That never sold on to 2nd/3rd tier airlines... Perhaps because they lacked the range to leave France  
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Chamonix
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:56 pm

Is it because the 777's ADIRU has 6 accelerometers with superior skewed axis combinations and redundancy management?
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: What The Secret To The Boeing 777 Safety Record?

Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:37 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
Yes, there has never been a death on an A340,

Air France over the Atlantic anyone?

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
If you remove all accidents not related to the aircraft (pilot error, WX

Wx cannot really be taken out of the picture except in a few circumstances (ie pilot error in not activating anti-ice). An aircraft needs to be built/designed and be fitted with the right equipment etc so that it can either avoid or survive weather.
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