scallar
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Is The 753 Shaky?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:03 pm

Here's something I've been wondering about that maybe some expert out there can answer...

Last year I flew CPH-EWR in a CO 752 and was seated near the middle of the aircraft. Right after this flight I flew EWR-SFO in a CO 753 and was seated on the last row. I noticed, especially on take-off but also for the entire flight, that the 753 was very shaky. I didn't notice the same thing on the 752. Then it occurred to me that maybe this is because the 753 is so long, and I was seated all the way back that the aft part of the aircraft somehow gets affected by the engines or something.

So that's my question.... Does the 753's engines cause some kind of "self-turbulence" to the aft part of the aircraft or are all 757's like this on the last row? Anyone else had the same experience? I've only been on four 752's and one 753 so my experience with the 757 is limited.

Thanks.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:37 pm

IIRC, one of the side effects of the 753's extra long fuselage is that harmonic motion carries through the fuselage, and that it is visible in turbulence   (if you look towards the front of the cabin from the back row, you can actually see how the fuselage twists during turbulence   ). The longer versions of the DC-8 also had this same problem...
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BoeingGuy
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:18 pm

Could he have been feeling some Dutch Roll being seated so far back on that lever arm?
 
BMI727
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:29 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 2):
Could he have been feeling some Dutch Roll being seated so far back on that lever arm?

Definitely possible, especially if the yaw damper is a little off. On takeoff he was probably just feeling more of the yaw as the pilot kept the plane on the centerline. It seems unlikely to me that the plane would have any major thrust intereference effects that could make it that uncomfortable on a regular basis.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
goboeing
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:29 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 2):
Could he have been feeling some Dutch Roll being seated so far back on that lever arm?

That is what I was going to say.

The 757-300 is truly an awful airplane to ride on compared to others.

After you go to the back section with your bags in the narrowest aisle out there, you get that dutch roll/yaw feeling every few minutes the entire flight regardless of conditions. Obviously, it's way worse in turbulence and down low.
 
my235
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:36 pm

A little off topic. But i've seen quite a few clips that have shown the horizontal stabilizer fluttering on takeoff or landing. Could that have something to do with the shuddering maybe.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:59 am

Quoting my235 (Reply 5):
A little off topic. But i've seen quite a few clips that have shown the horizontal stabilizer fluttering on takeoff or landing. Could that have something to do with the shuddering maybe.

You'll see that on almost every aircraft. You should also check out how much it flutters on the erj 145 when they go full reverse.
 
KrisFlyerGold
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:35 am

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 4):
The 757-300 is truly an awful airplane to ride on compared to others.

Tell me about it! I hate the 753 compared to the newer A321s or 739s. I despise the tiny 17" seats along with the tiny aisles on the 757s. I much prefer to take an A321 flight any day of the week! Even first class in a 757 isn't all that except for the quieter boarding process, assuming they use door #2 to board the 757.

NWA used to fly the DC10 on many of the flights they replaced the 753 with, which sucks. The DC10 in 1st/Biz 1st was sooooooo nice comparatively. I'm a 6'1" Asian, and my feet couldn't even reach the back of the seat in front of me on the DC10 BizFirst class. Additionally, my favorite meal was NWA's smoked chicken, pear, salad, with balsamic vinagarette. T'was amazing!
 
goboeing
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:19 am

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 6):
You should also check out how much it flutters on the erj 145 when they go full reverse.

I'm not on it anymore, but, wow, you should feel the yoke!!
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:19 am

I fly a lot between Atlanta and Minneapolis and when heading home, I'm ALWAYS on the 1530 dep out of MSP which has been scheduled as a 753 for as long as I can remember. I've gotten use to it but I do not look forward to when the flight's full and I get stuck in row 47...
What gets measured gets done.
 
KingFriday013
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:56 pm

I took a 753 for the first time on a SLC-ATL redeye Sunday morning. I thought it was a lot of fun. Had 46ABC all to myself and I slept pretty well  

I bet a full 753 must not be fun, that would be a lot of people...

-J.
Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:25 pm

Quoting KingFriday013 (Reply 10):
I took a 753 for the first time on a SLC-ATL redeye Sunday morning. I thought it was a lot of fun. Had 46ABC all to myself and I slept pretty well

I bet a full 753 must not be fun, that would be a lot of people...

There's a misconception that boarding takes forever and it's really not true. At lease from what i've seen. Like I said, i'm on one once a week MSP-ATL and that particular flight is either always near full or oversold. If the G/A follows policy, it won't be a problem. I've never seen boarding take more than 35 minutes and always have a few minutes to spare at the end when the door is closed. It usually departs out of F8 which has to hook up to L1 which is even more of a pain. Getting off...if you're in the back, just have a seat and read a book.
What gets measured gets done.
 
goboeing
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:46 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 11):
Getting off...if you're in the back, just have a seat and read a book.

Yeah, boarding is a simple 35-40 minutes, compared to 20-25 in a 767-200, but I timed getting off from the aft galley once on a flight with every seat full and it was 15 minutes.
 
Max Q
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:36 am

It is a significantly longer, heavier Aircraft than than the -200.


Personally, however, as a Pilot and Passenger I far prefer it to the -200. It may not have the climb performance but it is a far better handling Aircraft and soaks up the turbulence much better as well.


Flame away..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:52 pm

I agree with KingFriday 013.......having 3 seats sometimes beats business class, when it comes to getting some GOOD sleep. That is nice........no matter what plane.

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seabosdca
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:55 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 13):
Personally, however, as a Pilot and Passenger I far prefer it to the -200.

You're up front.  

The aircraft definitely is prone to Dutch roll that you can feel in the back.
 
jetstar
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:04 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 15):
You're up front.

The aircraft definitely is prone to Dutch roll that you can feel in the back.

Last week, our DL MD-80 TPA to LGA flight was cancelled because of a mechanical problem, so we were rebooked on a B-757 both legs via TPA-ATL-LGA, on the TPA-ATL leg we were assigned the only 2 seats left together, row 44. We do fly a lot on 757’s, but being an elite on DL we almost always can book emergency exit row seats, which are in the center of the cabin, but they were already taken when we were rebooked. My wife took the window seat, I was in the middle seat and next to me on the aisle seat was the Captain of our cancelled flight, with the First Officer sitting right behind him in row 45, they were both deadheading back to ATL to pick up another trip.

The Captain was pleasant and very talkative, so we had an interesting conversation about aviation, myself being a former corporate pilot and an FAA licensed aircraft mechanic. On take off from TPA with a crosswind, from sitting in the rear I could definitely feel the pilots using both the nosewheel steering and rudder to maintain directional control on the runway, so I jokingly told the Captain that I was glad we were not on a –300 because we probably would have suffered from whiplash. The Captain was a former NW pilot and had over 6000 hours in 757’s and he told me the most disliked airplane in the fleet from a passengers point of view was the 757–300 because it was so long some passengers sitting in the rearmost seats would get motion sickness because of the longer cabin. He did love the –200’s because of the power to weight ration and the stopping ability on the ground, which he pointed out that because the 757 has 8 main wheels and brakes, when landing they are very light and he said the airplane can stop in an incredibly short distance using both braking and reverse thrust.

JetStar
 
An225
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:10 am

When I commute to my work in ETH, I sometime fly the Arkia 753. It is most of the time a nice ride, since the ttl flight time is 35 minutes. However, during my last flight on the 753 (a couple of weeks ago) I was seated at the very end of the cabin and during the take-off from ETH to TLV I noticed some unusual things as per my previous experience with this airframe:
1. During fake-off the noise level was very high
2. During fake-off vibrations were very noticeable through the seat and when touching the walls
3. The flight felt jumpy back there but the weather was not good

This particular flight was very poor. In addition to the noise and vibrations, the seat was not reclinable, seat pitch was even worse than in other seats on this aircraft and in-flight service was not available.


An225
 
dxing
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RE: Is The 753 Shaky?

Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:04 pm

Quoting KrisFlyerGold (Reply 7):
KrisFlyerGold From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:

How in the world did you get that "joined Dec 1969"?

Quoting Max Q (Reply 13):
Personally, however, as a Pilot and Passenger I far prefer it to the -200.

I hardly ever notice the difference. I will say that during taxi you can get the feeling of being on the back of a horse if the taxiway is roughed up. But once flying? Haven't noticed anything unusal but then my eyes closed and the earbuds are in.
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