william
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Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:16 pm

DFW Tracon is a massive figurative rectangle sitting on top of the metroplex, arrivals come in at the corners and departures through the middle and sides of this rectangle. Fly into DFW and one can see this easily. My question is what route do the SWA departures and arrivals from the west use to cross the busy DFW traffic to get to Love Field?
 
barney captain
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:22 pm

We are descended quite early and drive along at 5000 ft to stay below the DFW arrivals and departrures. The same thing applies in MDW.
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WNCrew
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:34 am

Quoting Barney Captain (Reply 1):
The same thing applies in MDW.

The FA's always know in MDW that when we get the 10K alert, we still have a good 300 years before we actually land. MDW arrivals seem to drag on for a long time....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
AAR90
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:16 pm

Here's an old graphic that illustrates the complexities in the metroplex....

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DFWHeavy
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:28 pm

I know a lot of times when I fly WN and approach from the West into runway 13R at DAL, we will directly over the North part of the DFW airfield and given there is only about 12 miles between the airports, we are indeed pretty low.
Christopher W Slovacek
 
seven3seven
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:53 am

We fly a lot of the same arrivals and departures at different altitudes in the Metroplex
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e38
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:03 pm

William

The arrivals and departure for Dallas Love Field are essentially the same as those at DFW, although the altitudes may differ, particularly for the arrivals.

If you go to www.flightaware.com (among other sites) you can see all the STARS and SIDS for Love Field, as well as the Visual West 13R which brings aircraft over the northern part of DFW. If you compare them to the STARS and SIDS for DFW, you will see they are very similar, although some of them may have different names.

e38
 
william
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:53 pm

Quoting e38 (Reply 6):
If you go to www.flightaware.com (among other sites) you can see all the STARS and SIDS for Love Field, as well as the Visual West 13R which brings aircraft over the northern part of DFW. If you compare them to the STARS and SIDS for DFW, you will see they are very similar, although some of them may have different names.

Thanks E38 and everyone for the replies, I have sat in the AA terminal on the east side of DFW and notice SWA flying overhead. Doesn't flying over DFW into Love make for a sharp descent?
 
e38
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:30 pm

Quoting william (thread starter and reply 7), "Doesn't flying over DFW into Love make for a sharp descent?"

William, no, not really. What you are probably seeing from sitting in the AA terminals on the east side of DFW are aircraft flying the Love West Visual Approach to Rwy 13R at Dallas Love Field.

On this procedure, aircraft are required to remain at or above 4,000 feet MSL until south of North Lake (i.e., east of the extended centerlines for Runwys 17L/C/R at DFW and then continue the descent to Love Field. This area is close to Lippi intersection on the ILS RWY 13R approach to DAL. From that point, pilots have approximately 6 miles to lose 2100 feet if they wish to cross the Final Approach Fix (FAF)--Laura intersection--at 1900 feet. A normal glidepath is 3 degrees (i.e., 300 feet per nautical mile) so as you can see, the descent from a point south of North Lake to Laura intersection is only about 3.5 degrees. This procedure gives pilots plenty of time to stabilize the approach for the landing at DAL.
This is just a little steep for an ILS approach, but it is perfectly acceptable for a visual approach and folks aboard the aircraft wouldn't notice the difference in the descent angle.


e38
 
william
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:57 pm

Thanks again a38 and those who responded.
 
sccutler
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:43 am

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 3):

Here's an old graphic that illustrates the complexities in the metroplex....

Man, that *is* old - it still has the old cornerposts, the names of most of which I no longer recall (although I recognize Scurry VOR, SCY). Now, we have Cedar Creek (CQY), Bonham (BYP), Glen Rose (JEN) and Bowie (UKW) on the corners, and Ranger (FUZ), Maverick (TTT) and Cowboy (CVE) from east to west, Maverick being on the grounds of DFW (you see it between the lanes on the south part of the airport road).

Quoting william (Reply 7):

Thanks E38 and everyone for the replies, I have sat in the AA terminal on the east side of DFW and notice SWA flying overhead.

When I fly in from the west, headed to Addison (KADS), I frequently am routed directly over the top of DFW at 3,500' MSL - this is, of course, only in good weather, never when instrument procedures are in effect. It always amazes non-pilots or pilots who are strangers to the airspace when I get that, but the airspace directly over DFW is very calm. It's a real time-saver when inbound from the west.

DFW and DAL are pretty close together, but the airspace is exquisitely well-handled by controllers whom I contend are among the very best in the business.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
737tdi
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:13 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 10):
Man, that *is* old - it still has the old cornerposts, the names of most of which I no longer recall (although I recognize Scurry VOR, SCY)

You ain't kidding that's old... My house and property are right next door to the old Scurry VOR. It has long since rotted to the ground.

737tdi
 
william
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:41 am

Why did the FAA replace the VORs?
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:11 am

Wow, that chart certainly brought back memories of a lot of approaches and departures at Dallas Love. I actually go back earlier than that, to 1960, when Dallas Radar Approach Control issued identifying turns to inbound traffic. There was just something about "turn right to a heading of 330 for radar identification" that made me feel like I was in a Spitfire on an interception.
 
sccutler
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:26 am

Quoting william (Reply 12):
Why did the FAA replace the VORs?

They designed a whole raft of new STARs (Standard Terminal Arrival Route) and DPs (Departure Procedures), based upon the four "cornerposts" I mention above. It was needed to accommodate the very large volume of traffic in and out of DFW airspace (especially to/from KDFW).
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
apodino
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 2):

The FA's always know in MDW that when we get the 10K alert, we still have a good 300 years before we actually land. MDW arrivals seem to drag on for a long time....

Actually with the way the MDW flows go, arrivals from the east over GSH actually are initially handled by the SBN TRACON after handoff from Chicago Center, SBN Approach actually hands the flights off to Chicago TRACON. The idea here is to get the SE arrivals into MDW below the arrivals for ORD from the SE, especially if ORD is on a West flow, when approach won't have much room to descend ORD arrivals to sequence them for 28.

I am not sure how the W gates into MDW work, but I believe those gates parallel the ORD arrivals.
 
e38
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RE: Love Field Approach And Departure Routes

Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:56 am

Quoting sccutler (Reply 14), "It was needed to accommodate the very large volume of traffic in and out of DFW airspace (especially to/from KDFW)."

That is correct. Moving the cornerpost VORs "outboard" enabled DFW Tracon to expand the available airspace for vectoring aircraft.

From the northwest cornerpost, going clockwise, the replacement VORs are as follows:

Bowie VOR replaced Bridgeport VOR
Bonham VOR replaced Blue Ridge VOR
Cedar Creek VOR replaced Scurry VOR and
Glen Rose VOR replaced Acton VOR

e38

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