lat41
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727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:23 am

The later production versions of the 722 and 732, in OAG speak of the day 72S and 73S, were called advanced. What was the distinction that made that moniker. Although these birds have long passed on to second and third tier carriers (if not the scrapyard) and out of this country, does and "advanced" have any more value on the used market?
 
xjet
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:27 am

I think they had higher weight limits with a little more thrust.
 
roseflyer
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:33 am

I believe Advanced on the 727 was a 727-200 with an increased MTOW.
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AeroWesty
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:26 am

Quoting lat41 (Thread starter):
72S and 73S, were called advanced. What was the distinction that made that moniker.

While not fully detailed or comprehensive, there is some data about the advanced versions here on a.net:

http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=90

"First flown in March 1972 changes introduced on the Advanced model included increased fuel capacity, and thus range, the option of more powerful engines, quieter engine nacelles and strengthened structure. The Advanced remained the primary 727-200 production model until production ceased in 1984."


http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=91

"The definitive Advanced 737-200 appeared in 1971, featuring minor aerodynamic refinements and other improvements."
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KELPkid
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:47 am

The original 737-200's (non-advanced) were merely stretched -100's, and turned out to be slower than the -100 (more drag). An easy way to tell a non-advanced 200 from an advanced is that the pylon fairing on the -200 is "fat" (almost as wide as the section of nacelle that touches it) an the -200ADV has "skinny" nacelles.

Also, a huge design change was the lap joints in the fuselage. This played a factor in the Aloha 737 "convertible" accident, as the old design allowed a catastophic failure if cracks and corrosion were allowed to continue unchecked.
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Mortyman
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:54 am

I remember I flew with Pan Am and their B727 200 "Stretch". Anyone know why they put the "Stretch" in the typename ? Was there anything different about these at all or was it just a gimmick ?
 
cvg2lga
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:19 am

Mortyman,

I could be wrong, but I think the "Stretch" refers to the fuselage length differences in the 727-100 & 727-200. And I believe this also went for the DC9 series i.e. D9S

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United Airline
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:23 am

Any B737-200s/B727-200s still?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:31 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 5):
I remember I flew with Pan Am and their B727 200 "Stretch". Anyone know why they put the "Stretch" in the typename ? Was there anything different about these at all or was it just a gimmick ?

"Stretch" was not a Boeing designation. Just Pan Am marketing like other airline nicknames for aircraft. One horrid example is the appaling "Jumbolino".
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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tb727
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:27 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
Any B737-200s/B727-200s still?

Yep, there are a few, mostly flying freight. I'll be flying a 727 around tonight and there is a 737-200 out on the ramp where I am right now too, I saw it fly yesterday.

Check these links once in a while, you'll see a few flying throughout the day and night.

http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B732
http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B722
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CanadianNorth
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:34 pm

Not sure about the 727, but I know for the 737-200 when the Advanced version came out the main highlights were:

-Fuselage was constructed using slightly different bonding methods
-Higher weights
-Optional higher thrust engines
-Slightly better engine nacelles
-Slightly modified leading edge flaps and a few other aerodynamic tweaks

As for numbers still in service I don't know about the totals, but in this corner of the world the standard -200s went away long ago, as far as I know there's been nothing but Advanced models around here for several years now.
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KELPkid
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Also, didn't the thrust reversers on the 732 go from being pneumatic & wimpy to being hydraulically activated and powerful? Seem to recall that difference, too  
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aeroweanie
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:11 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
An easy way to tell a non-advanced 200 from an advanced is that the pylon fairing on the -200 is "fat" (almost as wide as the section of nacelle that touches it) an the -200ADV has "skinny" nacelles.

Are you sure? I've never seen anything but one common pylon width.

One change was to eliminate the blow-in doors on the nacelle. The engine spinner was also changed, both changes being made to reduce noise. T-43s have/had the blow-in doors. I've been near one during a ground run and can testify to the noise the doors produce.

Non-Adv and Adv:

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The change in thrust reverser was retrofitted to all early production 737s. Was it part of the Adv package or a separate item?
 
timz
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:16 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
An easy way to tell a non-advanced 200 from an advanced is that the pylon fairing on the -200 is "fat" (almost as wide as the section of nacelle that touches it) an the -200ADV has "skinny" nacelles.

On the #1 and #3 engines, you mean? No difference on #2?

I always thought the interior change about coincided with the "Advanced".

732 reversers all got changed, didn't they? Even on the unAdvanced 737s?
 
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:43 pm

"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
 
Viscount724
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:31 pm

Description of 737-200 Advanced changes here:
http://www.b737.org.uk/737original.htm#737-200%20Advanced
 
737tdi
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:23 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 11):
Also, didn't the thrust reversers on the 732 go from being pneumatic & wimpy to being hydraulically activated and powerful?

Yep, those air operated reversers were a freaking nightmare. Nothing but problems. Hell, what air did they use? Nothing but dirty, oily, crappy jet engine air. You can figure out what that means. Valves, actuators, everything getting clogged. It was horrible. They were on the JT3 as well. Sure glad Boeing went primarily to Snecma on the later ones.

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Jetlagged
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:30 am

Quoting Aeroweanie (Reply 12):
Are you sure? I've never seen anything but one common pylon width.

The flat pylon fairings were introduced on the 737-200 as part of a drag reduction programme, so most -200s and -200Adv would have the same feature.

Quoting timz (Reply 13):
On the #1 and #3 engines, you mean? No difference on #2?

He was talking about the 737, not the 727.
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Jetlagged
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:34 am

The 727-200adv also had options for autothrottle and a more advanced autopilot and flight director. Some even had FFRATS and PDCS.
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KELPkid
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:50 am

Quoting Aeroweanie (Reply 12):
Are you sure? I've never seen anything but one common pylon width.

Actually, I had it backwards    The ADV has the "fat" pylon fairings, and the -200 original has the skinny fairings. See:
http://www.b737.org.uk/737original.htm#737-200
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MD-90
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:59 am

What made them "Advanced" models? The Marketing Department!
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:18 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 19):
Actually, I had it backwards The ADV has the "fat" pylon fairings, and the -200 original has the skinny fairings

Later -200s had those wide flat pylons too. The change was made before the -200adv was launched.
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CanadianNorth
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:04 pm

Just a note about the 737 reversers, that wasn't related to the Advanced model. The newer and better hydraulic reversers and the four foot tailpipe extention that went with them was introduced about a year after the 737 first entered production, long before the Advanced models came along. Shortly after indroducing them Boeing also offered a kit to convert the -100s and the first batch of -200s from the original pneumatic reversers to the "normal" ones, which I believe they all got.
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113312
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RE: 727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?

Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:02 pm

The original B727-200 "Stretched" added 20 feet of length to the basic 727-100 series but retained the JT-8D-7A engine and weights. Many also retained some of the original systems like pneumatically controlled pressurization. Many airlines operated this first stretched version including Eastern and PSA.

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