united319
Topic Author
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:07 am

Can Airlines Change Their Engine Types?

Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:49 am

Hi All,

Please forgive me if this is a silly question or if it has been answered already. I searched and couldn't find anything. Could and airline re-engine it's aircraft with a different type? With all of the mergers going on these days airlines are getting the same type of aircraft with different engine variants. Could they theoretically change the engine type when it is time for the engines to get major overhauls any way? Example, UA fleeting its 757's with all RR or PW, US fleeting its A320 family with all IAE or CFMs.
It's Time To Fly
 
User avatar
BreninTW
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:31 pm

RE: Can Airlines Change Their Engine Types?

Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:03 am

In brief, yes they can.

There's a 747 flying around that had an engine type change at some point in its life. One of CX's 777-300s was originally built with GE engines (I believe) but was changed to RR engines prior to being delivered.

However, if it's economically viable to change engines is an entirely different question. There are major interface differences between the plane-engine interfaces for different engines. It's a major undertaking to change engines on a frame.

The 787 was supposed to have a common interface between the GE and RR engines. Unfortunately it hasn't happened "as advertised."
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: Can Airlines Change Their Engine Types?

Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:37 am

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 1):
The 787 was supposed to have a common interface between the GE and RR engines. Unfortunately it hasn't happened "as advertised."

The 787 still can swap engines without rewiring, new avionics, or new software, which is a huge advance over prior aircraft vis a vis engine changes. As far as I know, it's the only current airliner that was designed to have the engines swapped after initial assembly.

The original goal was common interface for both GE and RR engines so you could just drop one engine (and nacelle) and put on the other. That did not happen but they are common at the strut/wing interface. So you drop the engine, nacelle, and strut, then put on the new ones. Not as convenient as originally envisioned but still a whole heap better than anything else out there currently.

Tom.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19056
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Can Airlines Change Their Engine Types?

Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:04 am

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 1):
One of CX's 777-300s was originally built with GE engines (I believe) but was changed to RR engines prior to being delivered.

I think you're referring to the very first 777 built, a 777-200 (not a 300) that spent 6 years with Boeing and was then refurbished, reengined from PW to RR, and sold to CX. The aircraft below.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Phil Vabre
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Christian Junker

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 1):
There's a 747 flying around that had an engine type change at some point in its life.

A couple of Atlas Air 747-200s were converted from PW to GE. One of them below (same aircraft in all photos). That aircraft was written off after a runway overrun accident at DUS in 2005.

Original PW engines:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Udo K. Haafke
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



GE engines:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Anne Deus
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © TT - AirTeamImages




And 110 -60 series DC-8s were converted from the original PW JT3Ds to CFM56s in the early to mid-1980s, resulting a major improvement in performance and economics, not to mention a big reduction in noise..

Same aircraft before and after:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.

 
jshjrm5
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:34 am

RE: Can Airlines Change Their Engine Types?

Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:13 am

I am wondering if it would be possible to engine an MD-88 with the MD-90 engines. This would greatly increase their fuel efficiency.
 
User avatar
KGRB
Posts: 647
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:19 pm

RE: Can Airlines Change Their Engine Types?

Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:44 am

Quoting jshjrm5 (Reply 4):
I am wondering if it would be possible to engine an MD-88 with the MD-90 engines. This would greatly increase their fuel efficiency.

While it would undoubtedly increase fuel efficiency, I doubt it would be economically viable to make the investment into an airframe that has few years left in it. Not only would an airline have to pay for the retrofit, but it would have to pay the certificaton costs as well since an MD-80 reengineing program does not exist at this point.

It may not be possible anyways. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the reason the MD-90 was stretched a few rows was to accomidate for the increased weight of the IAE engines (i.e. keep if from being tail heavy). To add frames to the MD-80 fuselage would be a major undertaking and may not be technically possible.
Flown on 9E/AA/AL/CP/DL/EV/HP/MQ/NW/PT/OO/OH/UA/US/XJ/YV/YX/ZW
 
strfyr51
Posts: 2139
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: Can Airlines Change Their Engine Types?

Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:12 am

It's not a matter of COULD it be done but is it Cost effective to do it?
I work at United and the S-co 757's fly the Rolls engine. While the S-ua 757's fly the PWA 2040's . each does the Job it's assigned to and each will have it's own cost analysis. what 's the answer? I have no Idea what the costs are But someone Does and that will come to light when we order newer airplanes.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: Can Airlines Change Their Engine Types?

Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:05 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 6):

The sUA 757's are being on phased out as the new 739's come online per Semisk. So an engine change program at UA is moot.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
northstardc4m
Posts: 2724
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 11:23 am

RE: Can Airlines Change Their Engine Types?

Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting jshjrm5 (Reply 4):

I am wondering if it would be possible to engine an MD-88 with the MD-90 engines. This would greatly increase their fuel efficiency.

McDD did do some preliminary offers on an MD-90-10 which would of been MD8x aircraft reengined and with updated avionics. Alaska and Delta I think were the primary targets? They also offered the Super-9 program to AC and NW in the early 90s to do something similar (but with RR Tay or PW JT8D-21x engines) to DC-9-30/-40/-50.

I'll see if i can find the brochures at home later... not alot on them though as i recall.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
jshjrm5
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:34 am

RE: Can Airlines Change Their Engine Types?

Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:48 pm

I see on a website that DL has purchased an MD-87, N476DN, from SAS. Is this another bird for parts or is it being added to the fleet??? I know the MD-90s they are purchasing are going into service, I am just wondering about the MD-80 series they are purchasing second hand.

Thank you!!!
 
User avatar
n901wa
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:38 pm

RE: Can Airlines Change Their Engine Types?

Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:59 pm

Hi jshjrm5, the MD-87 and all the exSAS birds are for parts, along with 5 MD-90s that were purchased for parting out. HTH  
 
MarkC
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:10 am

RE: Can Airlines Change Their Engine Types?

Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:37 pm

Its about certification. DC8's could do it because of the vast amount of engines involved.

There was also some 747-200's re-engined from JT9-7's to JT9D-7R4G2's on cargo planes. It actually caused an increase in demand for -7R4G2 parts. Belive me, a much different engine. Its because this engine was certified to 747-200's and -300's.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kalvado and 16 guests