trav110
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Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:07 am

Was looking at the top picture today and it mentioned the spoilers were deployed and that the nosewheel had twisted. Is damage to this extent considered normal? It would seem that only tornado-like winds would have an effect on such a big plane. Would you be able to count on a relative degree of safety if inside a plane during a windstorm or tornado? What are the biggest damage risks to large planes like the 747?
 
Horstroad
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:59 am

strong winds can easily lift an aircraft and drop it several meters from its original position or just flip it over.
that´s why there is a special parking/mooring procedure for severe weather. you park the aircraft with the nose in the wind, elevator trim full nose down. if it comes to extreme winds you even chain the aircraft to the ground or fly it to another location.
there are quite some pictures in the database of single engine props flipped over by wind. this could also happen to bigger aircraft... I remembre a twin turboprop with broken landing gear after the wind lifted it up and dropped it hard, but I can´t find the picture anymore.
damage can be the same as from a hard landing or if it´s flipped over it could even end in a hull loss
 
UAL747
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:30 pm

Take a look at what some wind gusts can do!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XnHglTRkJ4

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
rfields5421
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting trav110 (Thread starter):
It would seem that only tornado-like winds would have an effect on such a big plane.

Several times a year in the Dallas area we see straight line winds in the 40-50 mph sustained area, with higher gusts. Along thunderstorm front lines as they pass by quickly, winds close to 100 have been measured. Any aircraft is at risk of damage when those type winds hit.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:27 pm

Quoting trav110 (Thread starter):
What are the biggest damage risks to large planes like the 747?

The gust damping on a 747 is not strong enough on control surfaces if the winds are too high. Wind can damage the rudder, airliners or elevator. The rudder is most likely to get damaged. It can get slammed and break the structure. Inspections may be required after strong winds.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:05 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 2):
Take a look at what some wind gusts can do!

Or here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5ruv4qN6-s
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:21 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 5):

The Importance of Mooring especially when weather forecasts predict bad weather.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Fabo
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:12 am

The most recent QS addition, OK-TVT was/is/will be (not sure) re-routed, instead of a delivery to PRG as planned, it will be delivered to YYZ, where it will fly in the place of one of the other QS planes leased out to Sunwing, that was heavily damaged in a wind-related accident (the aircraft was basically blown all over the place when wind hit, as it was parked for the night or something)
The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
 
nomadd22
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:12 pm

Not exactly a 747, but I had a dust devil pick up a C172 during fueling once and drop it upside down on the tanker. It was a perfectly calm day otherwise.
Anon
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:00 pm

Then there's the even worse combination of both wind and ice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEJFC5AM3_o
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
CaptainKramer
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:57 pm

Speciality Press published a book, Magnesium Overcast The Story of the B-36. Those familiar with the
B-36 know it is a big plane with a huge wingspan, the largest bomber built for the USAF to this day. There was a picture supplement that came out as well which showed the damage sustained after a tornado had passed through one of the SAC bases in the Mid West. The high speed winds had moved a large number of planes side ways into each other and in some instances onto each other, causing considerable damage. If I recall, many borderline right offs were repaired, only because the percentage of those damaged accounted for a considerable percentage of their available deterent at the time. Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.

LOL I just turned over to Mythbusters and they're playing the episode where they use a 747 Cargo plane to recreate tornadic wind speeds on the TIV from Storm Chasers.

[Edited 2012-02-28 11:51:47]
 
Viscount724
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:21 pm

Quoting CaptainKramer (Reply 10):
Speciality Press published a book, Magnesium Overcast The Story of the B-36. Those familiar with the
B-36 know it is a big plane with a huge wingspan, the largest bomber built for the USAF to this day. There was a picture supplement that came out as well which showed the damage sustained after a tornado had passed through one of the SAC bases in the Mid West. The high speed winds had moved a large number of planes side ways into each other and in some instances onto each other, causing considerable damage.

Dozens of photos of those damaged B-36s here (click the aircraft serial number). It was at Carswell AFB, Fort Worth TX, on September 1, 1952. All the damaged aircraft were repaired except for one. Many were new aircraft, not yet delivered (that was also the location of the B-36 assembly plant.)
http://www.cowtown.net/proweb/tornado/tornado.htm
 
nomadd22
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:43 pm

Can't find it now, but some engineer was explaining that you can get a ground effect that will cause a parked plane to redeploy upward even when the wind is below stall speed.
Anon
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:42 am

I have heard about the typhoon on Tinian, during WWII, for many years but have never been able to confirm or deny the story.
Supposedly, the B-29s were faced into the wind with engines running, full nose down elevator, and were "flown" on the ground by varying power to match the surface wind speed.

Does anybody know about this?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:09 pm

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 8):
but I had a dust devil pick up a C172 during fueling once and drop it upside down on the tanker.

Was there no forewarning....Normally there is one that advises to stop all refuelling ops.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
rfields5421
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:01 pm

Dust devils appear in clear air with no forewarning from clouds, lightning, etc which is normal with tornados or severe winds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_devil

We don't have them often around Dallas, but many years ago when I was at an auto race at Riverside California, I was knocked down as one formed in the infield. It blew around some chairs and a couple tents, and was gone in less than a minute. No warning at all.

[Edited 2012-03-08 06:03:34]
 
nomadd22
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:53 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 14):
Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 8):
but I had a dust devil pick up a C172 during fueling once and drop it upside down on the tanker.

Was there no forewarning....Normally there is one that advises to stop all refuelling ops.

They can show up in perfectly still air. You get a hot sun on a cold morning creating a nice warm layer of air on the ground and a butterfly can cause the disturbance thatr starts the air funneling up. The big ones aren't the types you get from the wind getting redirected by a building or something. They're like small tornadoes on a good day.
Anon
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather

Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 15):
Dust devils

Interesting term though.......
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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