Newark727
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How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:34 am

In a thread discussing the VC-25 it was mentioned that it has a 747-300 wing on a 747-200. I wasn't aware that there was a substantial difference between the two versions apart from the upper deck modifications. Which I assume are pretty significant. But was anything else changed?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:53 am

Quoting Newark727 (Thread starter):
In a thread discussing the VC-25 it was mentioned that it has a 747-300 wing on a 747-200. I wasn't aware that there was a substantial difference between the two versions apart from the upper deck modifications. Which I assume are pretty significant. But was anything else changed?

I know that the spiral staircase on the 742 was replaced by a straight staircase which is also seen on the 744.
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Max Q
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:46 am

The -300 economical cruise speed is also a little faster .85 as opposed to .84 for the -200.
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thegeek
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:10 am

GE power is CF6-80 on the -300, it's CF6-50 on the -200.

AIUI cruise speed change follows the SUD.

So unless you have GE engines, it seems that the -300 is identical to the -200 SUD, other than the staircase. That can't be right can it?
 
doug_or
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:28 am

I believe that later models of the -300 had a modified wing root.
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B747FE
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:01 am

Quoting Newark727 (Thread starter):
I wasn't aware that there was a substantial difference between the two versions

That's correct, there isn't a substantial difference other than some customer optionals (which were also available for previous models) such as the stairway and the 280 inch upper deck extension.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 1):
I know that the spiral staircase on the 742 was replaced by a straight staircase

Another optional.
Several -100/200 (Non SUD) were built with straight stairway (Although it was Fwd straight, not Aft straight like in the -300)

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):
The -300 economical cruise speed is also a little faster .85 as opposed to .84 for the -200.

Correct!
VMO/MMO however remained the same at 365/.92 or Mach .90 in RVSM airspace.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 3):
GE power is CF6-80 on the -300, it's CF6-50 on the -200.

Not entirely accurate.
While some -300 were powered by CF6-80C2B1 (C2B1F for the -400), CF6-50E2 engines were also used.

System wise, -100/200 & 300 were very similar.
Handling on the ground was exactly the same and in the air the difference was very subtle.

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thegeek
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:28 am

Quoting B747FE (Reply 5):
While some -300 were powered by CF6-80C2B1 (C2B1F for the -400), CF6-50E2 engines were also used.

So it was an option? Ok, sorry.
 
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747classic
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:20 am

Quoting Newark727 (Thread starter):
In a thread discussing the VC-25 it was mentioned that it has a 747-300 wing on a 747-200. I wasn't aware that there was a substantial difference between the two versions apart from the upper deck modifications. Which I assume are pretty significant. But was anything else changed?

There is no special 743 wing profile, the mentioned statement in the VC-25 thread is not correct, see reply 31 in that thread : Replacing Air Force One-748? (by hannahpa Feb 21 2012 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)

The 747 wings are produced in structural strength groups, all indicated by a number. Each number has a maximum structural strength capability. All 747 "classic" aircraft with a wing 6 or higher are capable of the MTOW of 833.000 lbs, the maximum certified for the classic 747-2/300 series, with original wingspan and no winglets.

There are no significant changes, apart for the upper-deck modifications. In fact all 743 aircraft are build in the same basic number block sequence as the 742.
747-200B/300 all pax basic number block R1001-R1267
747-200B/300 combi basic number block R1531-R1629
See for explanation : http://747world-fleet.info/basic-number.html
For each produced 747 airframe you can see the Boeing identifiers on this page :
http://747world-fleet.info/variable-number.html and double click at "here" at lower side of page.
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keta
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:16 am

A follow-up question then... can anyone list the differences between the -300 and the -400?

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 4):
I believe that later models of the -300 had a modified wing root.

I think I read this before. Anything on this?
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747classic
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:27 pm

Quoting keta (Reply 8):
I believe that later models of the -300 had a modified wing root.
I think I read this before. Anything on this?

The wing root was changed with the introduction of the -400 series (L/N 696). Also several late -200 and -300 series were factory built with this re-contoured wing to body fairing, decreasing drag by 0,5%. The first was L/N 704 , a 747-336 combi for Egypt Air.

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Remember that during 1989-1991 the -200,-300 and -400 series were assembled at random at the same final assembly line. In fact this factory modification was part of the 747 product improvement program.
No 747-200/300 aircraft were retrofitted with this feature, because of the relative high modification costs versus the fuel saving during the calculated remaining economical life expectancy.
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:40 pm

Quoting B747FE (Reply 5):
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 1):
I know that the spiral staircase on the 742 was replaced by a straight staircase

Another optional.
Several -100/200 (Non SUD) were built with straight stairway (Although it was Fwd straight, not Aft straight like in the -300)

It was right-angled, not straight. Examples below on Transaero (ex-NZ aircraft) and PIA 742s. And what do you mean by "fwd straight"? It was aft apart from the first few steps. I've never seen a forward-facing stairway on a 747. Maybe I'm misunderstading.


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Compared to the original spiral staircase.


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Photo © Paris Tsantis



[Edited 2012-02-23 12:44:06]
 
KELPkid
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting keta (Reply 8):
A follow-up question then... can anyone list the differences between the -300 and the -400?

One less seat in the cockpit 

Glass cockpit vs. steam gauges.

P&W JT9D option dropped-replaced with P&W4000.

IIRC, all engine choices on the -400 are FADEC.

I'm assuming that the reason the flight engineer went away is because you have computers handling things like fuel transfers automagically to keep the CG within check on a long haul flgiht?

And, of course, Winglets  
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thegeek
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:35 pm

Plus tail fuel tanks. Longer range and higher MTOW.

Is the max payload increased in the -400?
 
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:02 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 11):
IIRC, all engine choices on the -400 are FADEC.

Not entirely correct. The RB211 on the -400 is not a true FADEC. The fuel system is electronic but some engine systems are still controlled mechanically.

Hopefully someone familiar with the innards of an RB211 will fill us in on the intricacies of the control system.
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tjwgrr
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:23 pm

Quoting Newark727 (Thread starter):
I wasn't aware that there was a substantial difference between the two versions apart from the upper deck modifications.

And let's not forget these:

747-200 SUD


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Photo © Gerard Helmer



747-100 SUD


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Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner - WorldAirImages
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Photo © Poowin Bunyavejchewin

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keta
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:33 pm

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 14):
And let's not forget these:

Great, I thought I knew how to distinguish between 747 models, and now you come up with this!! 
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:47 am

Quoting keta (Reply 15):
Great, I thought I knew how to distinguish between 747 models, and now you come up with this!!

It is very hard. You can look at the engines but that still won't help with -100 vs -200.
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Newark727
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:52 am

Well fortunately for you most of the -100 and -200SUDs have probably been scrapped by now.
 
B747FE
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RE: How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?

Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:53 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
Viscount724

That's the one. Forward straight (as it's called in Boeing documents)
From the pictures you posted, it can be seen the stair is leading from the forward section of the upper deck to the forward section of zone "A". The rear straight stairway was only installed on airframes with the 280 inch extension.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 11):
One less seat in the cockpit 

..unfortunately..


Regards,
B747FE.
"Flying is more than a sport and more than a job; flying is pure passion and desire, which fill a lifetime"

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