aquablue
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Runway Capacity & Operation At LGA Question.

Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:39 pm

How much extra capacity does the 2nd cross runway at LGA provide compared with a single runway operation?

Also, since the runways are at right angles, how do they deal with all the cross wind situations? Are landings or takeoffs done crosswind?
 
Mir
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RE: Runway Capacity & Operation At LGA Question.

Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:34 pm

Quoting aquablue (Thread starter):
How much extra capacity does the 2nd cross runway at LGA provide compared with a single runway operation?

Generally, about 8-12 more arrivals per hour (about 20-25%). The FAA doesn't publish a departure rate, but you'd figure a similar number of departures.

Quoting aquablue (Thread starter):
Also, since the runways are at right angles, how do they deal with all the cross wind situations? Are landings or takeoffs done crosswind?

Landings. Though they don't like to use 22 for takeoffs, so then you might see takeoffs on 13 or 31 with a crosswind.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
aquablue
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RE: Runway Capacity & Operation At LGA Question.

Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:49 pm

Thanks Mir. How much more flights / hour would you get if you decoupled the two runways ?
 
Mir
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RE: Runway Capacity & Operation At LGA Question.

Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:50 pm

Quoting aquablue (Reply 2):
How much more flights / hour would you get if you decoupled the two runways ?

Not sure what that means.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
aquablue
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RE: Runway Capacity & Operation At LGA Question.

Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:55 pm

If you seperated the thresholds so that the two runways did overlap.
 
loggat
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RE: Runway Capacity & Operation At LGA Question.

Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:56 am

LGA controllers and pilots basically have it down to a science, such that when dual runway operation is in use, the spacing between landing aircraft is the minimum required. ie... 3 miles at the outer marker for 2 likesized category aircraft. This means that no extra room is planned for a departure between the two arrivals. It is just timed that a departing aircraft will roll through the intersection when the next landing aircraft is approximately on a 1 mile final. The system generally works pretty well. It does get a little testy when the arriving aircraft are traveling down the arrival with a tailwind. I have found that the LGA controllers are not too good at compensating for the shortened travel times from the OM to the threshold. I have seen multiple go-arounds because the controllers have given takeoff clearances way too late.

The best configuration is landing 22 and departing 13 because the intersection of the runways is where both a landing and departing aircraft will be out of conflict very quickly.
There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
 
aquablue
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RE: Runway Capacity & Operation At LGA Question.

Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:33 am

If they had the two runways not crossing, how many more flights / hour could they have?
 
mmedford
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RE: Runway Capacity & Operation At LGA Question.

Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:53 am

Quoting aquablue (Reply 6):
If they had the two runways not crossing, how many more flights / hour could they have?

A question; with no definite answer.

Honestly what do you expect from an airport built halfway on a pier between 2 other major airports.

There is just only so much airspace avaliable.
ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
 
aquablue
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RE: Runway Capacity & Operation At LGA Question.

Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:09 am

Oh come on, why are you being so cynical and snarky to me? If you don't want to talk and you hate my question, don't answer.

I'll ask the question again to someone who is civil.

If LGA had the same layout, but each runway was independent and did not touch, would there be any capacity increases at LGA possible in terms of flights per hour?

Thank You for you civil responses.
Aqua
 
loggat
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RE: Runway Capacity & Operation At LGA Question.

Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:57 am

There may be a departure rate increase if they were decoupled, but there would not be an arrival increase. The departure rate might go up about 3-7 per hour, would be my guess.

It's just theoretical though, because there is physically no room to do such an undertaking without shortening the runways to a useless length.
There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
 
Mir
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RE: Runway Capacity & Operation At LGA Question.

Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:26 pm

Quoting aquablue (Reply 8):
If LGA had the same layout, but each runway was independent and did not touch, would there be any capacity increases at LGA possible in terms of flights per hour?

In one wind configuration (the one where the flight paths didn't cross), yes. Otherwise things would stay the same. Kind of a moot point, though, as there's no room to rebuild the airport to that configuration.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
pilotpip
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RE: Runway Capacity & Operation At LGA Question.

Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:47 am

Decoupling the runways wouldn't really help as the traffic can still "cross" on go arounds. Take off on 4 and landing on 31 works well too because it's not hard to land and exit before the intersection. Spacing for arriving traffic is far les an issue since most comes in on the Mip and korry arrivals which bring you in from the south. Using 22 means a lot of vectoring. Either over the airport then doglegging to the east, or up the Hudson.

Exceeding crosswind limits knocks the place to 1 runway more than any other weather. When that happens the delays stack up fast. Since I've been based there the delays have been worst on windy days. That extra runway provides much more than 7-10 ops

It all has to do with what JFK is doing more than anything.
DMI

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