olddominion727
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:50 am

I have been in the travel industry over 20 years. I have always wondered what comprises the call numbers on a certain aircraft: 727-223, 777-3QN ... The only thing I understand is the first "2" in 223 means 200 equipment. Or F
means freighter... But how do you decode 777-3QN (example)
 
amccann
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:53 am

For Boeing aircraft only, the second and third letters form a two letter code unique to each airline or customer. For example United Airlines two letter customer code is 22. Therefore any Boeing aircraft ordered by United Airlines will be... 737-522, or 757-222, or 777-222.

I know Wikipedia is not an official source but it is the quick down and dirty of all Boeing two letter customer codes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_customer_codes

[Edited 2012-03-21 20:54:12]
What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. - Ronald Reagan
 
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zkojq
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:55 am

For Boeings, it is the the Boeing customer code. It refers to the airline that first bought/owned the aircraft. Here is a list of Boeing Customer codes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_customer_codes

For Airbuses it refers to the engine manufacturer and engine version. Info on that can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus#Airbus_aircraft_numbering_system

I hope all this helps  
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
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GSPFlyer
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:13 am

Hey guys, I have a related question... Let's say Delta orders a 737-800 from Boeing, it is delivered as a 737-832 (Deltas code is 32). If they sell that aircraft to, say, American. American re-configures the aircraft to match their 737-800's and re-paints it. Is it now a 737-823 (Americans customer code is 23), or does it retain the code of the customer who took delivery from Boeing..in this case, 737-832?
 
adipasqu
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:16 am

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 3):
Hey guys, I have a related question... Let's say Delta orders a 737-800 from Boeing, it is delivered as a 737-832 (Deltas code is 32). If they sell that aircraft to, say, American. American re-configures the aircraft to match their 737-800's and re-paints it. Is it now a 737-823 (Americans customer code is 23), or does it retain the code of the customer who took delivery from Boeing..in this case, 737-832?

Once an 832, always an 832. Once that code is assigned, it never changes.
707 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 752 753 762 763 764 D9S D10 319 320 321 M80 M82 M83 M87 M88 M90 SF3 ERJ CRJ
 
aeroblogger
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:29 am

A related question - what about the 787? It is just the 787-8, not the 787-800. Does that mean that AI's 787 will still be a 787-837, or will it be different?
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
 
BMI727
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 3):
If they sell that aircraft to, say, American. American re-configures the aircraft to match their 737-800's and re-paints it. Is it now a 737-823 (Americans customer code is 23), or does it retain the code of the customer who took delivery from Boeing..in this case, 737-832?

It stays with what it was built as. Some planes have been sold before delivery and retained their original customer code as the deal was done after construction started.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 5):
Does that mean that AI's 787 will still be a 787-837, or will it be different?

It stays as it was before if the 747-8 is an indication.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
gothamspotter
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:56 am

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 5):
A related question - what about the 787? It is just the 787-8, not the 787-800. Does that mean that AI's 787 will still be a 787-837, or will it be different?

It will be the 787-837.

ANA's are 787-881.
 
SXDFC
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:44 am

I want AI to order 737-700s so we can see a "737-737"  
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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RobK
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:54 pm

Quoting gothamspotter (Reply 7):
It will be the 787-837.

ANA's are 787-881.

Is the wrong answer.

The 787s are the first new model to drop the customer code. AIs are 787-8, NH are also 787-8, as are JL. There is no such thing as a 787-837, 787-881, 787-846 etc.

Quoting adipasqu (Reply 4):
Once an 832, always an 832. Once that code is assigned, it never changes.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
It stays with what it was built as.

Are also wrong answers. The code can be changed at any time prior to *delivery* (usually at the customer's request). Once it has been delivered, it will keep that code forever. One recent example of this is KE B748 37132 which was originally on the order book at a 8HTF as Guggenheim ordered it. When the order was transferred to KE during the build it was re-assigned with KE's FB code. It doesn't happen very often but there are other examples.
 
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zkokq
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:41 pm

Quoting RobK (Reply 9):
The 787s are the first new model to drop the customer code. AIs are 787-8, NH are also 787-8, as are JL. There is no such thing as a 787-837, 787-881, 787-846 etc.

Where did you get that info?

The database for Airliners lists them as 787-846 (46 = JAL), 787-881 (81 = JAL) 787-837 (37 = Air India) and so forth
 
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ZSOFN
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:03 pm

Quoting RobK (Reply 9):
Once it has been delivered, it will keep that code forever.

VS offer a good example of this - IIRC all their 744s were delivered new from Boeing, but they've got 3 different customer codes:

-(4)1R - VS
-(4)43 - AZ (they took delivery of Alitalia's cancelled batch of 744s)
-(4)Q8 - ILFC (their leased frames)
 
tdscanuck
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:09 pm

Quoting RobK (Reply 9):
The 787s are the first new model to drop the customer code. AIs are 787-8, NH are also 787-8, as are JL. There is no such thing as a 787-837, 787-881, 787-846 etc.

They dropped the "00" from the model (there is no such thing as a 787-800) but they still have customer codes.

Tom.
 
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747classic
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:40 pm

Quoting RobK (Reply 9):
One recent example of this is KE B748 37132 which was originally on the order book at a 8HTF as Guggenheim ordered it. When the order was transferred to KE during the build it was re-assigned with KE's FB code. It doesn't happen very often but there are other examples.

There are indeed a very few examples of a changed Customer code in the past, but your example has not been verified by the latest amended 747-8F listing in the 747 Type Certificate

Actually these two ex. Guggenheim 747-8HTF aircraft were already assembled, but not delivered, when the order was cancelled.
The first, now delivered and active for KAL , MSN 37132, is according the latest FAA 747 Type certificate still listed as a 747-8HTF , see the 747 Type Certificate (revision 49) at pag 36/74 :
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...053c6d4/$FILE/A20WE%20Rev%2049.pdf

The second 747-8HTF (MSN 37133) has not been delivered and is not yet included in the TC- listing.

[Edited 2012-03-22 08:14:56]
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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RobK
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:55 pm

Quoting ZKOKQ (Reply 10):
Where did you get that info?

The database for Airliners lists them as 787-846 (46 = JAL), 787-881 (81 = JAL) 787-837 (37 = Air India) and so forth

"The database for Airliners" hardly constitutes as an official source. The info comes from Boeing's own internal system. Unlike all their other models, the 787 data sheets contain nothing more than "787-8" in the column for the variant. All the other models show 737-823, 747-830 etc.

I only found out this myself a few months back when one of my sources asked me why I still listing them as 787-881, as like you and probably everyone else, I had just assumed that the numbering pattern would continue. Turns out it's not the case and the customer code is no longer included in the full type designation. With the exception of the one erroneous FAA entry for one of the test 787s, you will not see the customer code eg. 787-881 mentioned at all on any official documentation nor the manufacturer's own internal system, it is simply 787-8.

The reason you still see them mentioned on enthusiast fleet listing websites is because they're all a bunch of sheep and just copy the same info (and errors) from each other and when it gets regurgitated enough times people take it as Gospel.

Quoting 747classic (Reply 13):
There are indeed a very few examples of a changed Customer code in the past, but your example has not been verified by the latest amended 747-8F listing in the 747 Type Certificate

Actually these two ex. Guggenheim 747-8HTF aircraft were already assembled, but not delivered, when the order was cancelled.
The first, now delivered and active for KAL , MSN 37132, is according the latest FAA 747 Type certificate still listed as a 747-8HTF , see the 747 Type Certificate (revision 49) at pag 36/74 :
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...9.pdf

*SIGH* You keep quoting this airweb link but since when has the FAA been accurate? I can recall seeing plenty of examples of factually incorrect info on their reg look-up site over the years I've been using it. The simple fact of the matter is that Boeing (ie. the manufacturer, not the regulatory body) re-assigned the airframe with Korean's customer code when the order was transferred from Guggenheim, this is 100% fact. You can believe what you want but I would greatly appreciate you stopped trotting out the same error of it still being a 8HTF in your 747-8 thread and confusing everyone.   
 
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747classic
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:22 pm

Quoting 747classic (Reply 13):
There are indeed a very few examples of a changed Customer code in the past, but your example has not been verified by the latest amended 747-8F listing in the 747 Type Certificate

As stated in my reply, your claim that the customer code has been changed from -HT to B5 has not been proven and verified by several sources.
I observed in the past also a few typo's in the FAA listing, but the latest revision, dated Feb 29, is clearly marked at that position (vertical line) and you cannot produce a typo of -HT iso - B5. There must have been data transfer from Boeing to the FAA.

Quoting RobK (Reply 14):
The simple fact of the matter is that Boeing (ie. the manufacturer, not the regulatory body) re-assigned the airframe with Korean's customer code when the order was transferred from Guggenheim, this is 100% fact.

Pls, provide me with some facts (sources) for your claim................................

Also the Puget Sound ( Boeing test flight) blog states the delivered aircraft as a 747-8HTF and they are most of the time very accurate :
http://boeing-test-flights.blogspot....09-b747-8htf-korean-air-cargo.html
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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zkojq
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:14 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 12):

While I like Boeing's systems of customer codes from a plane-spotters point of view, I have to wonder why Boeing continues to issue them. It seems like extra paperwork for comparatively little gain, or am I missing something? Would you be able to tell us why Boeing continues to use/issue them?
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
roseflyer
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:35 pm

For all airplane models except the 787, there is a line number, customer variable block number (also known as effectivity), customer code and model type. The model type is the 3 digit number which in the example provided earlier would be 747-422 for United, etc.

The 787 doesn't use the same firing order system, so the numbering is different. I haven't see the 787 using model type because it is redundant information. The operator can be determined by a simple search on the other numbers.

In general the three digit model type number is rather meaningless and is not commonly used. However with so many systems interfacing, it might still appear in some databases.
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tdscanuck
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Boeing Customer Codes

Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:55 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 17):
While I like Boeing's systems of customer codes from a plane-spotters point of view, I have to wonder why Boeing continues to issue them. It seems like extra paperwork for comparatively little gain, or am I missing something? Would you be able to tell us why Boeing continues to use/issue them?

My guess is that it's a bigger hassle to take it out of the system than to keep going...a *lot* of manufacturing systems have their roots in a lot of places and making trivial-looking changes like removing the customer code could have unforeseen consequences for downstream systems.

In the case of the 787, as Roseflyer said, it's a different manufacturing system so they weren't constrained and I think that's why you don't see it on the official identifiers anymore.

Tom.
 
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zkojq
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Boeing Customer Codes

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:15 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 19):

Thank you for explaining, Tdscanuck.
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