dirtyfrankd
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AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Fri May 04, 2012 4:22 pm

I've noticed over many many many flights on AA 737s that they always tend to be exceedingly warm. Especially when on the ground and taxiing, and also during descent and closer to approach for landing.

I mainly only fly AA and out of their entire fleet, have only experienced this issue on 737 (don't have 737s from other airlines to compare this to). Has anyone else experienced this or know what could be the reason? Is it an AA issue or a 737 design issue?
 
sw733
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Fri May 04, 2012 4:26 pm

Quoting dirtyfrankd (Thread starter):
Has anyone else experienced this or know what could be the reason? Is it an AA issue or a 737 design issue?

Sounds like bad luck to me. I'm an AA ExecPlat and fly the 738s quite often, and don't remember them being uncomfortable, temperature wise.
 
dirtyfrankd
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Fri May 04, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting SW733 (Reply 1):
Sounds like bad luck to me. I'm an AA ExecPlat and fly the 738s quite often, and don't remember them being uncomfortable, temperature wise.

Hmm, weird, I'm Exec Plat as well and could swear that I've felt it on numerous flights, especially in the newer ones.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Fri May 04, 2012 5:10 pm

I typically find that if I'm uncomfortable, my neighbors agree. Typically the crew will happily adjust the temperature if you ask nicely.
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YYCFlyer
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Fri May 04, 2012 6:26 pm

My understanding is that the Boeing 737 family the Cabin Crew doesn't have control of the cabin temperature, they have to contact the flight deck to get it adjusted. Possiblly they are not able to contact them for adjustments just prior to takeoff.
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DocLightning
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Fri May 04, 2012 6:32 pm

Quoting YYCFlyer (Reply 4):
My understanding is that the Boeing 737 family the Cabin Crew doesn't have control of the cabin temperature, they have to contact the flight deck to get it adjusted. Possiblly they are not able to contact them for adjustments just prior to takeoff.

Aren't the PACS often shut off during takeoff?
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roseflyer
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Fri May 04, 2012 6:53 pm

Quoting dirtyfrankd (Thread starter):


I've noticed over many many many flights on AA 737s that they always tend to be exceedingly warm. Especially when on the ground and taxiing, and also during descent and closer to approach for landing.

The 737-800 is very close to the max limit of the PACKs capability for air conditioning during hot days in sunny weather. In cruise it is not a problem, but at low engine thrust especially with limited ram air duct control when flaps are down, the 737-800 can struggle to cool the airplane adequately. A 737-800 will heat up pretty quickly on taxi out or at the gate if there is no external air conditioning attached to the airplane. Being that AA's largest hub is in DFW, I am not surprised you notice it on their airplanes.
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sw733
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Fri May 04, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 2):
Hmm, weird, I'm Exec Plat as well and could swear that I've felt it on numerous flights, especially in the newer ones.

Maybe I'm just luckier than you  
 
113312
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Fri May 04, 2012 7:06 pm

You know, a lot of pilots don't pay close attention to the temperature in the cabin. They just set it and forget it. You get one flight attendant who says that they are cold, the knob get a twist to warmer and that's it until the next complaint. This is not just an issue with a particular aircraft type or airline but is symtomatic of two person flight crews and more automated systems. A bit more attention and finesse will result in more comfortable cabins for the passengers. If the pilots are comfortable they assume that the cabin is too. Not always the case.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Fri May 04, 2012 7:18 pm

Quoting 113312 (Reply 8):
A bit more attention and finesse will result in more comfortable cabins for the passengers. If the pilots are comfortable they assume that the cabin is too. Not always the case.

That's it. Usually the pilots are more than happy to adjust the cabin temp if someone (politely) complains to the F/A. Generally you feel the difference within a few minutes.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6):
The 737-800 is very close to the max limit of the PACKs capability for air conditioning during hot days in sunny weather. In cruise it is not a problem, but at low engine thrust especially with limited ram air duct control when flaps are down, the 737-800 can struggle to cool the airplane adequately. A 737-800 will heat up pretty quickly on taxi out or at the gate if there is no external air conditioning attached to the airplane.

Can't they run the APU for a bit?
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fr8mech
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Fri May 04, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Can't they run the APU for a bit?

The PACs won't run without the APU, or more properly, without an air source.

The B727-100's had the same type of problem. On a hot ramp, even both PACs had a hard time keeping up.

An air-conditioning cart (different from the air cart) would work wonders at the gate.
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N243NW
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Sat May 05, 2012 3:37 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Aren't the PACS often shut off during takeoff?

Even on hot days, my understanding is that a bleeds-off takeoff is a pretty uncommon procedure, especially at DFW with its long runways.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Can't they run the APU for a bit?

Yes - during the summer at DFW the PCA at the gate is almost never enough to keep the cabin at a reasonable temperature. As a result, APU usage goes through the roof in the summer months.

The ex-TWA MD-80s are notorious for having terrible APUs. As one pilot told me, it's "a losing battle" to keep the aircraft cool as soon as the engines are shut down and the underpowered APU takes over the A/C packs on the ground.
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HAWK21M
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Sat May 05, 2012 7:49 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):

Aren't the PACS often shut off during takeoff?

Only if its a Bleeds off T/O.....

Quoting 113312 (Reply 8):
If the pilots are comfortable they assume that the cabin is too. Not always the case.

Always wondered why a temperature display Indication was not present in the Cabin Area.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Can't they run the APU for a bit?

Packs run on Pneumatics.To save on the life of the APU & costs due ATF burn,A ground external cart is preffered.
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WNCrew
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Sun May 06, 2012 5:54 pm

The Boeing Sky Interior I've noticed is warmer, on AA, CO/UA and also now WN. The air vents in the PSU's barely push any air due to the design change. We have to ask pax to please open vents and lower window shades as we are pulling into the gate.
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Super80DFW
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Fri May 11, 2012 12:27 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
An air-conditioning cart (different from the air cart) would work wonders at the gate.

When I worked at DFW, it was AA policy to have PCA (pre-conditioned air) hooked up to the aircraft if the temperature was below 45 degrees or above 75 degrees. PCA works wonders onboard the aircraft.

Last summer I was on a DFW-LGA Super 80, and as we pulled onto the runway, the air stopped. I'm assuming the captain shut it off to take stress off the engines. It was a very long takeoff roll!
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AF1624
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Fri May 11, 2012 8:43 am

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 14):
I'm assuming the captain shut it off to take stress off the engines. It was a very long takeoff roll!

Not quite, but not too far either.

When the engine bleeds are on (normal setting on most phases of flight), pressure is provided for the A/C packs to work. However, during take-off, especially in hot and high conditions, with a high load, the pilots will often need to maximise available thrust. Turning the engine bleeds off does that.

However, the bleeds are turned back on quite quickly after take-off, otherwise, there's no pressurisation and well... you know the rest.

That's a quick, rough explanation of course.
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HAWK21M
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Sat May 12, 2012 9:22 am

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 13):
The air vents in the PSU's barely push any air due to the design change.

what exactly is contributing to this variation?.
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CRJ900
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Sat May 12, 2012 12:14 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 13):
The Boeing Sky Interior I've noticed is warmer, on AA, CO/UA and also now WN.

Agree. Where I work we have several aircraft with Sky Interior and the air vents don't produce as much force in pushing the air out, it feels more like a fart than a gush of fresh air. We were supposed to have temperature control on the FA control panel, but they were never activated for some reason.
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WNCrew
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RE: AA 737-800 Cabin Temperature

Sat May 12, 2012 5:14 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 13):
The air vents in the PSU's barely push any air due to the design change.

what exactly is contributing to this variation?.

I'm not sure I'll be able to articulate this well but.... with the older style PSU Gasper Vents the air was forced through a longer tube... almost like it was building up speed before it came through the opening (which had a more variable control as your turned it). The new ones are built such that it seems the air doesn't get any time to build up pressure and the vent itself isn't as variable and thus doesn't offer as much variation is air speed when it dos come out. It would be akin to what you feel when you purse your lips and blow, vs when you just exhale with your mouth open.
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