Jawed
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Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:54 pm

I know this is a far-fetched scenario, but would it be theoretically possible for a person to egress from a Gulfstream private aircraft in flight using a parachute?

Let's assume that the pilot could slow down the jet as much as possible (while still maintaining lift), and that the jet could be flown to a much lower altitude (like 6,000ft vs 40,000 ft) where breathing is possible.

Could the doors even be opened in flight? Or would this by itself be completely impossible due to the pressurized cabin?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:53 pm

If you're at 6000ft there need not be a pressure difference so that's not a problem. However there may be slipstream issues. Which way does the door open?

If you don't hit the wing, stabilizer or engines there are no problems really.
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rfields5421
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:57 pm

The door can come open. It might not be designed to come open in flight, but if there is a malfunction as we saw with the Challenger recently - it could happen.

I personally would never try to jump out a door that far forward with the wing right where I would be blown as I exited the aircraft. Even the WWII movies where we see folks jumping from DC-3s flying under 80 KIAS, they are blown backward quite a bit.

At 150 knots (the jump would have to be with the gear retracted) it is going to move the jumper 30-50 feet straight back before the downward movement starts.

[Edited 2012-06-06 16:59:24]
 
KPWMSpotter
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:11 am

I toured the Bombardier Learjet facility in Wichita recently. The prototype Global Express was hangared there, it was outfitted with a small ballistic parachute in the tail. The parachute was apparently installed to help stabilize the aircraft if it entered a deep stall condition. The flight test engineer I was talking to stated that it wasn't there to help save the aircraft, it was there to buy the pilots some extra time as they ran for the door.

That being said, it would seem that the people at Bombardier were willing to give it a shot from a Global Express in an extreme scenario. It's likely that the door was also outfitted with some sort of explosive bolt system during flight test to assist an emergency egress too though.

Most business jets aren't equipped with plug doors, making it easier for someone to potentially open a door in flight. I'm not entirely sure about the Gulfstream, but most jets with integral airstairs in the doors aren't plug type. That being said, even if you could open the door, there's still an awful lot of stuff (wing, engines, tail) to dodge after jumping out. Probably not a very good idea to try...
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KELPkid
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:53 am

My #1 fear:

Getting sucked into the #1 engine

#2:

Whack the wing, get knocked unconscious, or fatally wounded, and at the same time render the aircraft uncontrollable somehow

#3:

The same as #2, but on the vertical stabilizer or tail. Yes, relative airflow can pick you up    D.B. Cooper had the right idea, egress from a point in the aircraft that is free of flight surfaces and engines  
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Chese
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:18 am

The only real shot you have is going out the baggage door. It is accessible from the cabin and big enough to egress out through.
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Max Q
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:13 am

Cant beat the 727 for best Civilian jet to jump from,




Straight out the back..
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MD-90
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:44 am

Am I the only one that thinks that if you opened a G-V's door in flight it would be ripped off of the aircraft!?


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Starlionblue
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:09 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 7):
Am I the only one that thinks that if you opened a G-V's door in flight it would be ripped off of the aircraft!?

I don't know if it would be ripped off. Those hinges are pretty strong. Also there may be a certification requirement stating that if a door opens in flight it shouldn't smash right into the engine. 

I do imagine there'd be some warping of the door frame.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:45 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 6):
Cant beat the 727 for best Civilian jet to jump from,

Until the cooper lock got fitted  
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rfields5421
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:35 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 7):
Am I the only one that thinks that if you opened a G-V's door in flight it would be ripped off of the aircraft!?

There is a thread around here about a recent incident with a Bombardier Challenger where a very similar door came open in flight.

Challenger Door Falls Off In Opa Locka - Follow Up (by my1le May 29 2012 in Civil Aviation)

The step part of the door came off the aircraft. But suprisingly did not hit any flight surface.
 
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dlednicer
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:10 pm

Quoting KPWMSpotter (Reply 3):
The prototype Global Express was hangared there, it was outfitted with a small ballistic parachute in the tail. The parachute was apparently installed to help stabilize the aircraft if it entered a deep stall condition.

The prototype Canadair Challenger was fitted with just such a parachute. In flight test on April 3, 1980, the plane entered a deep stall condition and the pilot fired the chute. The chute helped the aircraft recover from the deep stall, but then the pilot found that he couldn't jettison it. The co-pilot and flight test engineer bailed out through the aft baggage door. The pilot for some reason waited too long and didn't make it out before impact.

Bombardier then made the activation of the parachute a two-step process: first close the jaws securing the chute and then fire the chute. On July 26, 1993, a CRJ100 in flight test entered a deep stall. In his haste, the pilot did step two without doing step one. The chute was ejected from the airplane. The crew of three was killed in the ensuing crash.
 
Max Q
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:27 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):

Until the cooper lock got fitted

That can be removed, or even better, as has been done like in the recent radio controlled crash in Mexico where they remove the entire rear airstairs.
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MD-90
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:33 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
There is a thread around here about a recent incident with a Bombardier Challenger where a very similar door came open in flight.

Thanks for the link, I didn't see that thread the first time around.
 
soon7x7
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:09 am

Quoting Chese (Reply 5):
The only real shot you have is going out the baggage door. It is accessible from the cabin and big enough to egress out through.


The only way to exit any Gulfstream during flight is out the baggage. The airstair would not survive the opening, nor would the jumper. As far as the overwing exits, you got big suckers too close to the wing, instant chopmeat. Better consider a different ship for the jump!
 
Jawed
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:16 pm

That's a very interesting idea. I hadn't thought of the baggage door as an inflight-egress.

Could any Gulfstream Pilots comment on how realistic this is? (assuming a total emergency and that you have a parachute)

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 14):
The only way to exit any Gulfstream during flight is out the baggage. The airstair would not survive the opening, nor would the jumper. As far as the overwing exits, you got big suckers too close to the wing, instant chopmeat. Better consider a different ship for the jump!
 
soon7x7
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:58 pm

I'm not a Gulfstream Pilot but I am a pilot and MX and working on a G-V today...I'll shoot you a shot of the hatch...it is located under the port engine pylon, aft of the intake and away from the exhaust. In addition the door tracks up INSIDE the baggage compartment...I would believe it to be most probable...g
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Egress From Gulfstream V With Parachute?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:05 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 12):
That can be removed, or even better, as has been done like in the recent radio controlled crash in Mexico where they remove the entire rear airstairs.

True....a deliberate mod for the purpose can of course be executed.
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