User avatar
readytotaxi
Topic Author
Posts: 3496
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

BA Concorde/pilots & Cabin Crew History Question.

Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:27 pm

I was watching a documentary on TV about the aircraft and it did not explain where the crew came from?

Sorry if this has been asked before.
1) From which aircraft type were pilots taken to train for the Concorde, any, or special requirements needed?
2) How were Cabin crew selected, pot luck or seniority.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
XXXX10
Posts: 703
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2000 7:10 am

RE: BA Concorde/pilots & Cabin Crew History Question.

Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:38 pm

I am sure someone better qualified than me will answer this.

Many of the original crews, I believe, came from other types in the 70s -VC10 707 etc. As Captains retired they were replaced by other captains also converting. A Concorde command was the peak of the airlines seniority.

The firsrt officers were also converted from other types, they would be promoted to captains, eventully- but on subsonic a/c. I believe a few made it back up the seniority list to get back on to Concorde.

Apparantly there were some dis-advantages for Concorde converts ie. lack of variety in routes, longer than normal conversion course, limited opportunites for promotion.

Not sure abut the engineers but would imagine that many were from other types originally.

Cabin crew where not exclusive to Concorde and also served on subsonic short haul flights.

[Edited 2012-07-02 13:39:35]
 
vc10
Posts: 1352
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

RE: BA Concorde/pilots & Cabin Crew History Question.

Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:02 am

During the initial years of Concorde all the crews both flight deck and cabin crew were sourced from BOAC/Overseas Division of BA

Some of the very original flight deck crew [management] came from B747, but the rest of those trained on Concorde up until about the early1980s came either from B707 or VC-10s.

Due to it proposed limited route network and speed this meant that crews on Concorde could not trigger extra money payments which were mostly tied to the length of sectors based on subsonic operations. The more senior you were the easier it was on subsonic aircraft to earn these extra payments,therefore very few senior crew applied to transfer onto Concorde where the pay was less . Also there was some doubt at the beginning about the longevity of the aircraft so crews were reluctant to convert only to have to transfer back within a few years.Thus the early Concorde flight Deck crews were quite junior with the most crews being in their 30s or even a few in their late 20's

This changed in the early to mid 1980's with crews coming from any aircraft in the mainline fleet short or long haul and in the 1990's crews arrived whose background was with BCAL. In the aircraft's later half of it's life the pay system for Concorde F/D crews was improved and so many more senior crews did transfer especially near the end so as to have the experience of flying supersonic. Crews had to have at least 7 years left before retirement to be accepted for conversion due to the high cost of conversion. The longest serving F/D crew member was a F/E who stared his conversion in late 1975 and retired in 1999

Cabin crew originally came only from VC-10s or B707s and worked exclusively on Concorde . however in the eighties this changed and as far as cabin crew were concerned Concorde was a a short haul aircraft and cabin crews were recruited from aircraft such as B757 etc and the cabin crews flew on other aircraft as well as Concorde

Tgere s a lot more to say but hope this helps

littlevc10
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4175
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: BA Concorde/pilots & Cabin Crew History Question.

Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:23 am

I have read several times that flying Concorde was actually lower paid in BA than flying 747s, due to the passenger loads being linked to pay scales.
 
vc10
Posts: 1352
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

RE: BA Concorde/pilots & Cabin Crew History Question.

Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:22 am

Quoting moo (Reply 3):
have read several times that flying Concorde was actually lower paid in BA than flying 747s, due to the passenger loads being linked to pay scales.

That is not true I am afraid. The basic pay for crew at that time was the same with increments coming with seniority.
However crew could earn extra money due to the length of the sector or the number of hours they worked in a month.
All of these triggers were geared to subsonic speeds and so Concorde crews never triggered them and that was the reason Concorde F/D crew were paid less than equivalent same rank and seniority on say a B747.

This was addressed in the later half or so of the aircraft's life and pay did improve
 
Bellerophon
Posts: 522
Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 10:12 am

RE: BA Concorde/pilots & Cabin Crew History Question.

Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:38 am

moo

...I have read several times that flying Concorde was actually lower paid in BA than flying 747s, due to the passenger loads being linked to pay scales...

No, that was not the case, passenger loads had nothing to do with it.

vc10 has already pointed out, the main reason Concorde flight crew earned less than they could have done on other fleets was that:

...crews on Concorde could not trigger extra money payments which were mostly tied to the length of sectors based on subsonic operations....

A major pay structure change for all BA flight crew did redress some of this imbalance but only just before she went out of service!

Other reasons included the relatively short time spent away from the UK, leading to reduced allowances, and the very small number of instructor jobs available to crews on Concorde.

Best Regards

Bellerophon
 
GCPET
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:43 pm

RE: BA Concorde/pilots & Cabin Crew History Question.

Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:33 pm

My Dad was one of the lucky few to be able to pilot the beautiful aircraft. He started the conversion course in the Spring of 1998 and started flying Concorde in December of 1998. He transferred from the 737-200's as a Captain and wanted to fly Concorde so bad that he went down to a Senior First Officer. His final flight with Concorde was the day after the tragic Paris Crash. Since then he's taken his Command again back on the 737's to 2004 and the 757/767 fleet since 2004. Trying to persuade him onto the Jumbo's again but he's waiting for the 787's I think. I think to get the opportunity to fly Concorde you just had to apply and go through a vigorous interview process. Hope this helps in some ways!

GCPET
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 5043
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: BA Concorde/pilots & Cabin Crew History Question.

Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:19 pm

I have always been curious how the pairings were built. Did Concorde crews ever do a Trans-Atlantic turn-around?
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19287
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: BA Concorde/pilots & Cabin Crew History Question.

Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:27 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 7):
I have always been curious how the pairings were built. Did Concorde crews ever do a Trans-Atlantic turn-around?

From what I've read they always overnighted and returned the following day.
 
vc10
Posts: 1352
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

RE: BA Concorde/pilots & Cabin Crew History Question.

Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:10 am

Normal rostering allowed crew to overnight in the states, but now and again due to crew shortages or unexpected crew illness a crew member would cross from one flight to the other one at New York and so operate LHR -JFK-LHR without a stop over. It was also known for a crew member to operate JFK -LHR- JFK without a stop over. Notice I am saying a crew member as I do not remember a whole crew doing this.

This was only possible if the crew member operated the early flight and returned on the late flight, but he/she would have to hot foot it from one aircraft to the other to achieve on time departures

littlevc10

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: OMP777X, tb727, TurnaroudUK and 24 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos