TonyBurr
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Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:16 pm

If an airline has both passenger and cargo service do pilots chose one or the other type of flying? What would be reasons for them to chose one or the other type of service? Pay the same?
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:26 pm

I don't know how it works, to be honest, but if I had the choice (if I were a pilot that is LOL) I would choose CARGO...cargo doesn't complain        
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
PH-BFA
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:36 pm

Depends on the airline; at KL pilots flew both the 747 pax as well as the 747 freighters(until MP took over the freighter flights). Don't know how things are organised elsewhere...
 
phxa340
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:38 pm

Don't cargo pilots have to work awful hours and a lot of overnight flights vs passenger ops ?
 
airtran737
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:42 pm

Boxes don't bitch.



filler
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
PanHAM
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:47 pm

Nowadays there are hardly any combination carriers left. When LH still had 737 cargo a/c one of my neighours was a FO on 737 and he flew occasionally freighters as well.
powered by Eierlikör
 
Senchingo
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:48 pm

Normally there are PAX-pilots and cargo-pilots (Edit: With that i mean either pax or cargo, not both)

Payment should be higher for PAX, as they have the higher responsibility.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 4):
Boxes don't bitch.

Definitely true

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 3):
Don't cargo pilots have to work awful hours and a lot of overnight flights vs passenger ops ?

Don't understand that. Well yes, maybe they have more maintenance related delays - but regarding operating hours/overnight flights, where's the difference to PAX? They also do long haul and overnight.

[Edited 2012-08-09 13:49:22]
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:20 pm

Quoting Senchingo (Reply 6):
Quoting phxa340 (Reply 3):
Don't cargo pilots have to work awful hours and a lot of overnight flights vs passenger ops ?

Don't understand that. Well yes, maybe they have more maintenance related delays - but regarding operating hours/overnight flights, where's the difference to PAX? They also do long haul and overnight.

That's true for longhaul international flights, but most shorthaul passenger carriers have very few flights at night. In places like Europe many airports have night curfews which makes night flights even more difficult.

Shorthaul freighters in North America are often parked all day and do most of their flying at night. It's the opposite for passenger carriers.
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:36 am

Quoting Senchingo (Reply 6):
Payment should be higher for PAX, as they have the higher responsibility

I would have to disagree with you there. Sure you have people's lives in your hands but what's not to say in the back of that aircraft you don't have something that would save someone's life? Not to mention you have just as much responsibility in flying the aircraft safely.
Blue
All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:29 am

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 1):
cargo doesn't complain

Just what I said yesterday Too.....

Cargo ops is def more peacefull.......& less strenous.......both to Flt ops & maintenance.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Stealthz
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:03 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 8):
Quoting Senchingo (Reply 6):
Payment should be higher for PAX, as they have the higher responsibility

I would have to disagree with you there.

I agree JetBlueGuy, never been able to understand that sentiment, The pilots of the United flight at Sioux City, the Gimli Glider crew, Sully and the Hudson ...Uncounted others where the valiant efforts of the pilots have saved the plane, the crew and others, would those pilots have put in less effort, not tried so hard.. if there was only Tee shirts and computer terminals in the back? I doubt it!.
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
nomadd22
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:17 am

It's all cargo. Some of it's just noisier.
Anon
 
airbuster
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:40 am

Give me PAX over cargo any day. I much rather have a nice crew to fly with them be alone with capt. Grumpy on a 10 day trip. But I guess I'm to much of a people person.
FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
 
113312
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:09 pm

I have flown for 5 passenger airlines and 5 cargo airlines. All of the arguments about which is better are insignificant. If flying is your career, what is important is job security, quality of life, schedule, compensation, safety. There is good maintenance and poor maintenance, safe operations and marginal ones, professional crewmembers and those who should be doing something else. These distinctions are found in both cargo and passenger operations.

A professional pilot must set high standards and expectations for themself and get the best employment possible. The responsibilities cannot be measured in terms of dollars.
 
FlyHossD
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:40 am

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 11):

It's all cargo. Some of it's just noisier.

One of my favorite gate agents referred to passengers as "self-loading cargo." It always made me chuckle.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:23 am

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 3):


Don't cargo pilots have to work awful hours and a lot of overnight flights vs passenger ops ?

All pilots eat a lot crap when it comes to crew scheduling.
You Sir, are a very funny lady.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:16 am

Quoting stealthz (Reply 10):
would those pilots have put in less effort, not tried so hard.. if there was only Tee shirts and computer terminals in the back? I doubt it!.

wouldn't they think about themselves too  
Quoting flyhossd (Reply 14):
One of my favorite gate agents referred to passengers as "self-loading cargo." It always made me chuckle.

Nice one to share at work......
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
pilotpip
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:23 pm

Quoting Senchingo (Reply 6):
Normally there are PAX-pilots and cargo-pilots (Edit: With that i mean either pax or cargo, not both)

Payment should be higher for PAX, as they have the higher responsibility
Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 8):

I would have to disagree with you there. Sure you have people's lives in your hands but what's not to say in the back of that aircraft you don't have something that would save someone's life? Not to mention you have just as much responsibility in flying the aircraft safely.
Blue
Quoting stealthz (Reply 10):

I agree JetBlueGuy, never been able to understand that sentiment, The pilots of the United flight at Sioux City, the Gimli Glider crew, Sully and the Hudson ...Uncounted others where the valiant efforts of the pilots have saved the plane, the crew and others, would those pilots have put in less effort, not tried so hard.. if there was only Tee shirts and computer terminals in the back? I doubt it!.

I quoted all three of these for a number of reasons. First, I respectfully disagree with you, Senchingo. A 400,000 pound DC-10 (or 747 or whatever) with thousands of gallons of jet fuel crashing into a neighborhood would cause a lot of fatalities regardless of it being boxes or live cargo.

Second, I'm not trying to sound rude, or callous but I couldn't care less about the passengers in an emergency. I care about myself. By doing everything I can to save myself, I'm doing everything I can to save everyone in the back as well. This is something of an overexaggeration but it beyond annoys me when a passenger asks if the aircraft is safe. Do you really think I would be there if I didn't think it was? I'm sorry but my life is worth far more than the few bucks I'd lose because a flight had an mx-related cancellation. I value your life as a passenger far more than the minor inconvienience it will cause you as well. I've pointed this out a couple times when passengers have become irate because I was unwilling to put them into a complex machine flying at 75% the speed of sound in an environment where the average human wouldn't survive without the protections that machine gave.

Third, does it matter if boxes or passengers are in the back in an accident? No. I'll raise your Sully, SUX and Gimli and raise you a FX flight with Aubery Callaway (or whatever his name is) taking a hammer to the skull of all three of the crew. They fought back, and landed a cargo plane with severe injuries. It's human nature to protect others. Passengers have interviened multiple times to subdue someone since 9/11, there are a number of stories of heroism from the Colorado Theatre shooting and the Sikh shooting as well.
DMI
 
tb727
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:08 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 8):
I would have to disagree with you there. Sure you have people's lives in your hands but what's not to say in the back of that aircraft you don't have something that would save someone's life? Not to mention you have just as much responsibility in flying the aircraft safely.
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
wouldn't they think about themselves too  

Heck yeah, I don't care who or what is in the back, bottom line is I am on board and I have the resposibility to keep myself and my aircraft as safe as possible. If I save myself, I save everyone and everything on board(theoretically).

I've never thought, ehhh, I have a plane load of car parts in the back, f-it, let's just auger in  
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
ymincrement
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:29 pm

I think it changes according what you carry for a cargo. If you only carry envelopes or small boxes (2-5 kg) it is ok.
But if you carry dangerous items or some huge parts of anything (may be a part of plane) I think it will be much harder to fly then PAX
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:57 am

Quoting tb727 (Reply 18):
I've never thought, ehhh, I have a plane load of car parts in the back, f-it, let's just auger in  

I had started writing that very comment but decided not to enter this discussion. Thanks for saying it. I don't get where some folks thinks there's a difference. The most important person on the jet is........ME.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:16 am

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 3):
Don't cargo pilots have to work awful hours and a lot of overnight flights vs passenger ops ?

Depends on the airline. Lots of airlines have lots of night flights with self-loading cargo. Only short haul pax is "day only", and even then you get some night.

Quoting Senchingo (Reply 6):
Payment should be higher for PAX, as they have the higher responsibility.

You must be joking...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:11 pm

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 20):
The most important person on the jet is........ME.

True

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
You must be joking...

On the contrary.....Flying/maintaining older craft & compromising on valuable experience on the latest type should be compensated by higher wages.....
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:40 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 22):
On the contrary.....Flying/maintaining older craft & compromising on valuable experience on the latest type should be compensated by higher wages.....

??????? explain this. I can't understand what you're trying to say. Starlionblue replied to the statement that carrying pax should pay more because of the "responsibility".
With that thought maybe I should be paid more because we fly some very potent HAZMAT that pax jets can't carry and could be a big disaster if we were to crash not to mention just the hazard to us in the jet. The bottom line is that you get paid what the airline pays to do what the airlines wants you to do.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:33 am

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 23):
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 22):
On the contrary.....Flying/maintaining older craft & compromising on valuable experience on the latest type should be compensated by higher wages.....

??????? explain this. I can't understand what you're trying to say. Starlionblue

I think he agreed with me actually. Many years on a.nut have given me an ability to parse HAWK21Mspeak. 
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:54 am

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 23):
??????? explain this
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 24):
Many years on a.nut have given me an ability to parse HAWK21Mspeak. 

True....thou art my best follower thereafter.......  

I said that flying/maintaining older Aircraft & compromising on the professional experience one would have got on worlds latest fleet should be compensated by more wages than the rest.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
bueb0g
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:45 am

Quoting stealthz (Reply 10):
The pilots of the United flight at Sioux City, the Gimli Glider crew, Sully and the Hudson ...Uncounted others where the valiant efforts of the pilots have saved the plane, the crew and others, would those pilots have put in less effort, not tried so hard.. if there was only Tee shirts and computer terminals in the back? I doubt it!.

To see the same kind of impressive airmanship and piloting skills one must look no further than the DHL A300 in Iraq, which had a missile strike after takeoff and lost all hydraulics, much like UA232, but unlike that DC-10, managed to land safely. Not to belittle the efforts of Al Haynes, Denny Fitch, Bill Records (and the F/E whose name I have forgotten) - they had an engine failure to deal with which no doubt affected controlability further, and the DHL crew were in essence following the lead of UA232 but I always thought how sad it was that the superhuman efforts shown by the DHL flightcrew have been almost entirely removed from memory, apart from in aviation buff circles, simply because they were flying cargo and not pax. Were it a pax a/c it would be remembered as one of the most spectacular moments in aviation history.
Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
 
Stealthz
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:26 am

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 26):
To see the same kind of impressive airmanship and piloting skills one must look no further than the DHL A300 in Iraq, ......and the DHL crew were in essence following the lead of UA232

That was my point exactly, and the DHL crew acknowledged the lessons learned from UA232

Cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why A Pilot For Pax Or Cargo?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 26):
I always thought how sad it was that the superhuman efforts shown by the DHL flightcrew have been almost entirely removed from memory, apart from in aviation buff circles, simply because they were flying cargo and not pax.

Depends on the location .... out here its remembered alright....True the media would highlight a Pax Airliner Incident more than a Freighter.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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