flaps30
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Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:31 pm

I am a regular customer on WN. I fly them at least 5 or 6 times per month and I have noticed that the WN pilots take a long time to turn off the seat belt sign after departure even in optimal flying weather. When I do fly other airlines, I have noticed that these pilots are more liberal with the seat belt sign especially outside the US. On some of my intl flights, the wheels have barely left the ground and the seat belt sign is already turned off! Do WN pilots do this on purpose? Is it just part of the cautious culture of WN? I think it is a good idea to keep people seated until reaching cruising altitude. Any thoughts?
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enilria
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:34 pm

If they are cautious they aren't going to like this new EYW-MSY flight too much. They are going to be close to maxxed out on performance, particularly in a crosswind.
 
Fabo
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:53 pm

Might just be company procedure. Some companies have 10.000ft, other 18.000, yet another company may want to be in cruise altitude until the sign is turned off. Not exactly *pilots* being conservative, but it might be that WN procedures are more conservative than other airlines.
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roseflyer
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:17 pm

Essentially most US airlines keep the seat belt sign on until levelling off at cruise. Many other airlines have it off at 10,000 or 18,000, but US airlines tend to be most cautious. You always run the risk of going through some turbulent air on climb, so if you turn it off at 18,000 and then hit some turbulence when passing through FL250, you are guaranteed to have passengers standing up.

On descent, most will leave it on until they feel some turbulence or 18,000 or sometimes lower.
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barney captain
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:52 am

While there is room for discretion, our procedure is to turn off the sign after level off, and put it back on just prior to the descent.
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XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:37 am

You serious? Have you ever seen them taxi around an airport?

Nearly every airline pilot has seen someone get cut off by a WN guy at least once.
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SAAFNAV
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:28 am

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 5):
You serious? Have you ever seen them taxi around an airport?

Nearly every airline pilot has seen someone get cut off by a WN guy at least once.

Here we go again.. WN bashing time!   
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seven3seven
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:15 am

Sorry, its just the one guy at WN who cuts everyone off. Just one. But he's famous.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:28 am

While we're on the topic of being conservative; is it just mean or do the "older" carriers taxi slower? I've spent thousands of hours on the ramps over the years and it seems like DL/AA/UA guys taxi much slower than FL. It was always a running joke that if you were on a tug and you see a 717 coming you'd better stop because they WILL run you over. It's always funny to see them turning into the ramp full speed and dip into the many areas where the water drains and the whole plane kind of bounces around as it taxis down towards or away from the gates. Very pronounced on the smaller 717s.

Just pure perception but it seems like EV pilots don't taxi as fast as the 9E guys. They seem to love when the ramp agents are already in place so that they can just turn into the stand and barrel down only to slam on the breaks as they're stopped on the line and you see the front nose bounce up and down.
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:40 am

Does the seat belts light coming off late does always have something to do with conservative behaviour or safety? Some carriers seem to like to keep the lights on for extended times, and I've wondered if this is a "just in case" thing, or if the intent is to keep the passengers in place so that the cabin crew can do its work. Kind of reminds me of the revelation from some book that FR crews sometimes block off last three rows not always just for balance reasons, but also to put some distance between themselves and the passengers. Apparently this displeases some people who were going for the best seats there.

Of course, I have no firsthand knowledge, but sometimes I wonder...
 
DashTrash
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 5):
You serious? Have you ever seen them taxi around an airport?
  
Nearly every airline pilot has seen someone get cut off by a WN guy at least once.

I never saw a Southwest guy cut anyone off, but there were times I swear I saw daylight under the nosewheel.

Quoting saafnav (Reply 6):
Here we go again.. WN bashing time!

It's not bashing if it's true.

Quoting seven3seven (Reply 7):
Sorry, its just the one guy at WN who cuts everyone off. Just one. But he's famous.

Does he have any twin brothers or sisters? 

Back to the topic. A lot of guys I know are paranoid about turning off the seatbelt sign. Common thought is that if it's on and someone gets hurt, they won't get sued. In four years of flying the Dash, we turned it off maybe half a dozen times in cruise. Flawed way of thinking, but the other guy in the cockpit had the extra stripe for the better part of my time there.
 
SAAFNAV
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:04 pm

Ok,

So this guy ran off the runway due to bad weather?


But this guy ran off in bad weather because he taxies fast?


And this guy flew the approach wrong, but it's also WN's fault, because no other airline has 'bad' or reckless pilots?
(All based on the fact that they taxi fast).
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barney captain
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:13 pm

saa....

Thank you.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting saafnav (Reply 11):

Well, you posted the pics  
What gets measured gets done.
 
SAAFNAV
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:00 pm

Was sarcasm, but ok...

WN never landed wheels up yet?
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting saafnav (Reply 14):
Was sarcasm, but ok...

WN never landed wheels up yet?

Well, I thought that I made it clear that I knew that hence my smiley..geesh
What gets measured gets done.
 
wagz
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:29 pm

Wow, this thread degenerated fast didn't it.

Here's my professional opinion from the other side of the mic. On the ground WN generally speaking does taxi quite rapidly. If I need them to cross a runway without delay they do it no questions asked and I'll usually hear that 737NG warning horn go off in the background as they stand the throttles up. In the air, they are quite a bit more conservative. They will slow earlier and quickly on final, even if you ask them to stay fast. I can't say I blame them after the two well known runway overruns from short runways. Just part of their corporate safety culture I assume.
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SAAFNAV
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:28 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 15):

Well, I thought that I made it clear that I knew that hence my smiley..geesh

My apologies then, sir.

Regards,
Erich
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ThirtyEcho
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RE: Are WN Pilots More Conservative Than Other Pilots?

Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:08 am

I've been flying WN since the 1970s and I have never experienced them taxiing much past barber pole.

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