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jumbojim747
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Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:56 pm

There has been a fair bit of incidents and acident8 due to pilots mistaking runways when they are parallel is there a way this can be changed to stop the confusion for example changing a runway number from 34L and 34R to say 34L and 35R a change of a number or would that throw off navigational instruments
The Singapore airline taking off on the wrong runway could have been avoided if this was the case
Also if this is not possible due to the compass heading etr could they build runways slightly off parallel to compensate for the change

[Edited 2012-09-15 06:10:20]
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C767P
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:18 pm

Runway numbers do change for the shift of magnetic north. This happened in Tampa last year when 18R/36L and 18L/36R were changed to 19R/1L and 19L/1R.

Accidents where aircraft departed from the wrong runway can be prevented by the crew confirming they are on the correct runway.
 
larspl
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:21 pm

Hi JumboJim747. This is all ready in use at some airports.
i.e. 4 parallel runways will be numbered 25L 25R 26L 26R. But it still doesn't change the fact that mistakes are made the rundays remain in the same direction, only the name has changed.
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Birdwatching
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:30 pm

Building runways slightly angled instead of parallel? Never. This would be very dangerous.

Naming parallel runways slightly incorrect to distinguish them? It's being done all the time. Look at CDG or ATL for example.

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jumbojim747
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:44 pm

Thanks for the reply guys but i was more concerned about changing the numbering so it can be plain as day and the confusion can be eleminated.
Cheers
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nipoel123
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:47 pm

Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 4):
Thanks for the reply guys but i was more concerned about changing the numbering so it can be plain as day and the confusion can be eleminated.
Cheers

Proper cooperation between crewmembers should solve this, if not ATC. They should see an aircraft is on the wrong runway before they clear them for take-off.
one mile of road leads to nowhere, one mile of runway leads to anywhere
 
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jumbojim747
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:38 pm

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gTstH3hzw5s
Check this out and you know what i mean.
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Mir
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting JumboJim747 (Thread starter):

There has been a fair bit of incidents and acident8 due to pilots mistaking runways when they are parallel is there a way this can be changed to stop the confusion for example changing a runway number from 34L and 34R to say 34L and 35R a change of a number or would that throw off navigational instruments

It wouldn't throw off navigational instruments, but it would eventually get confusing for pilots at airports with many parallel runways. When you line up on a runway for takeoff, you check your compass against the runway number to make sure you're on the right one, and if the runway number is 20 or 30 degrees off the compass heading, that would catch my eye as potentially suspicious.

-Mir
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jumbojim747
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:41 pm

Thanks for the reply Mir.
Im talking like a number difference of 1 for example instead of having 2 runways with the same number we can bavw one say 34 and one 35 instead of both being 34 left and right
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Pihero
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:53 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
It wouldn't throw off navigational instruments, but it would eventually get confusing for pilots at airports with many parallel runways.

Too true !
That's the situation at CDG : They started with runways 26 -south of the terminal - and 27 -north- although they had the same heading.
When they added the two shorter runways outside of the original two, the "doublets" became 08/26 R and L and 09/27 R and L.
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Mir
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 8):
Im talking like a number difference of 1 for example instead of having 2 runways with the same number we can bavw one say 34 and one 35 instead of both being 34 left and right

That could be just as confusing for an arriving aircraft. If I'm approaching the airport and I see two runways, and I'm cleared to land on 34L, it's pretty clear which one I'm going to be landing on. If I'm cleared to land on 34, then I have to start thinking about which is 34 and which is 35. It just gets complicated, and using L/R/C to identify runways, though it does have some drawbacks, is overall the better way to go.

-Mir
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jumbojim747
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:22 pm

Too true
That one slipped my mind
How about putting the L and R before the numers would that be more clearer at a glace L34 R34
Cheers
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PHX787
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:18 pm

SXM changed it's numbering a few years back due to a shift in magnetic north as well
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26point2
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:21 pm

The L/R/C designator always precedes the runway number...in the US anyway.

This brings up another question: I have always wondered why the runway designator painted markings in the US are much larger than everywhere else I have flown. In Europe for example the numbers are so small it's much harder to see them until very close. Bigger is better in this case unless there is advantage to smaller numbers that I am missing.
 
Mir
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:39 pm

Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 11):
How about putting the L and R before the numers would that be more clearer at a glace L34 R34

I don't really see the difference between 34L and L34. Plus, when speaking on the radio, "left ______" is generally associated with a turn, so "cleared for takeoff left 34" could be misinterpreted as an instruction to turn left after takeoff.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Horstroad
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:13 pm

a call out which runway the aircraft is on or which runway the aircraft is approaching helps a lot to prevent landings or take offs from wrong runways


http://youtu.be/ndi7N9EoHoI?t=2m48s

"Approaching 25 Right"
"On Runway 25 Right"
 
BMI727
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RE: Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed

Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:37 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
I don't really see the difference between 34L and L34. Plus, when speaking on the radio, "left ______" is generally associated with a turn, so "cleared for takeoff left 34" could be misinterpreted as an instruction to turn left after takeoff.

Seeing that on a sign or chart could also make it easier to confuse with a taxiway.
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