wwtraveler99
Topic Author
Posts: 194
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:34 pm

RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:31 am

Yes this is a rumor and since I am not versed on the process of getting ETOPS certification I have some questions.

1. Where can someone find out if an app is retracted?
2. Can a carrier just decide to change their mind like that?
3. What sense would this make for WN do do something like this?
4. Wouldn't this warrent a media report, if it actually happened?


I find it very hard to believe this information. I got the information from a friend who read it on a pilot message board. (i am assuming some sort on internal message board)

Thanks for any information you can provide to dis-spell this rumor.


WW
 
spiritair97
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:28 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:52 am

I don't see why they would, but I cannot confirm that they didn't retract it. I thought they were all amped up about starting int'l and Hawaii services with the 738s. Wouldn't a lot of their proposed int'l flights from HOU require ETOPS certification?
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:08 am

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 1):
Wouldn't a lot of their proposed int'l flights from HOU require ETOPS certification?

No. Just some over water equipment like rafts and vests. Not ETOPS, since youll never be likely more than 45-60 minutes from land at any point.
 
spiritair97
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:28 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:11 am

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 2):

Thanks for the clarification, I thought it was a lot more complicated than that, but I overthink things a lot    
 
G500
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:45 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:15 am

The ETOPS application was for Hawaiian services, NOT for the Caribbean, correct?

DO NOT need ETOPS to hop over the Gulf of Mexico, heck a King air can probably cross the Gulf
 
chrisair
Posts: 1777
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:29 am

How long will it take for that "someone" (with 25,600 or so posts) to post this on Flyertalk?  
 
United1
Posts: 2862
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:39 am

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):
The ETOPS application was for Hawaiian services, NOT for the Caribbean, correct?

ETOPS isn't necessarily specific to an area but it's not really required for Caribbean operations.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
QANTAS747-438
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 7:01 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:49 am

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Thread starter):
2. Can a carrier just decide to change their mind like that?

Of course. If WN decided they didn't want to fly any ETOPS routes, then they would not continue going through the process. It's not as if they are in some legally binding contract.

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Thread starter):
3. What sense would this make for WN do do something like this?

The ONLY route WN needs ETOPS on is Hawaii. They do not need it for the Caribbean, Latin America, South America, etc. Only Hawaii. So the only reason WN might do this would be if they no longer wished to fly to Hawaii. In my opinion, it would be a huge waste since they have the new -800s that are being delivered ETOPS ready. ETOPS is a major financial investment and the -800s were bought to service leisure routes. Why get the -800s if they aren't going to properly use them? Very sad.

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Thread starter):
I find it very hard to believe this information. I got the information from a friend who read it on a pilot message board

Unfortunately, I have heard this rumor as well. I also have yet to see any form of concrete evidence.

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Thread starter):
4. Wouldn't this warrent a media report, if it actually happened?

Why would the media care about this? I don't think America is on the edge of their seats waiting to see if WN will get ETOPS certification or not.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 846
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:09 am

This rumor has 2 reason to it.
1. If the FA TWU 556 fail to pass this 2nd side letter on over water near international flying.
The company just going to put Hawaii off until 2015 and resume talks with the FA group in Aug 2013 when the FA work group starts new contract talks.
2. The weight and balance issue with 737-800 are causing delays to the application being passed.

There is also another rumor if the TA FAILS WN will use FL which is Etops approved will server Hawaii until 2015.
While the FA group goes thru contract talks.
Personally while I think there were some things I would have loved to seen in the TA.
It's still 85% better than the last TA.
I think it will pass.
Wnfg  
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
QANTAS747-438
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 7:01 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:13 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 8):
FL which is Etops approved

FL is not ETOPS approved.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
Atlwest1
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:11 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:25 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 8):
There is also another rumor if the TA FAILS WN will use FL which is Etops approved will server Hawaii until 2015.

FL isnt Etops approved. They are approved for extended overwater flying but not Etops however they are far more versed and could be closer to getting the certification then WN is. FL 737's have the avionic and equipment for that kind of flying they just dont have the ETOPS program though it was something the Independent FL was considering.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
 
airliner371
Posts: 2060
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:27 am

Quote:
1. If the FA TWU 556 fail to pass this 2nd side letter on over water near international flying.

I just hopes it passes. On a similar note, What's going on with Southwest Airlines out sourcing at MDW?
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:29 am

What's being outsourced at MDW?
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
gizmonc
Posts: 243
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:51 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:39 am

I don not think that WN is terminating their ETOPS program. FAA is currently at SWA HQ meeting with Flight OPS on the application. Word is that it is about completed. SWA employees have been working on the Hawaii service.
 
BMI727
Posts: 11103
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:51 am

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):
The ETOPS application was for Hawaiian services, NOT for the Caribbean, correct?

  

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):
heck a King air can probably cross the Gulf

I'm pretty sure a King Air could cross any body of water since business aircraft don't have to comply with ETOPS. Doesn't make it a good idea though.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Atlwest1
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:11 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:51 am

Quoting gizmonc (Reply 13):
I don not think that WN is terminating their ETOPS program. FAA is currently at SWA HQ meeting with Flight OPS on the application. Word is that it is about completed. SWA employees have been working on the Hawaii service.


Has SWA done proving runs for the etops service yet? Also isnt a small component of approval that the FA's are certified for water evacs and the planes to have rafts? Do the FA over water flying count towards this certification? Just wondering.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
 
strfyr51
Posts: 2108
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:23 am

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 1):

Fron HOU to Mexico only requires Overwater Equipment. they're not going to be more than 60 minuted from land at any time.. Hawaii requires 180 min ETOPS Certification. If their new airplanes are delivered ETOPS then they'll just have to certify the long range navigation and Communications along with the ETOPS equipment and Proving Runs. It's a little more than just paperwork.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3960
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:16 am

As has been stated, the only routes that WN wants to fly that would require ETOPS is hawaii.

All caribbean and south american flying is non ETOPS.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 1733
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:27 am

The two main reasons WN got the 800's was for ETOPS destinations and for slot controlled airports. i personally feel there is no truth to this etops rumor
 
QANTAS747-438
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 7:01 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:24 am

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 15):
Has SWA done proving runs for the etops service yet?

No, not at all. There are a few rumors that WN was doing some proving runs on revenue flights across country with paxs on board. But you can't do proving runs with paxs and it would have to be a maintenance flight. Also, the rumor came from pilots  

I've heard that proving runs might be done in the AUG-OCT 2013 time frame in order to start an OCT-DEC 2013 service. Again, more hearsay. In terms of cold hard facts, WN has released nothing regarding Hawaii or ETOPS.

Quoting gizmonc (Reply 13):
I don not think that WN is terminating their ETOPS program. FAA is currently at SWA HQ meeting with Flight OPS on the application. Word is that it is about completed. SWA employees have been working on the Hawaii service.

That would be great news. Again, more rumors, but I've also heard that WN did their application for ETOPS (whatever that entails) and then pulled back on it. Haven't heard if it was restarted, if the rumor were true.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 18):
The two main reasons WN got the 800's was for ETOPS destinations and for slot controlled airports. i personally feel there is no truth to this etops rumor

True. I personally never believed that WN wanted to use the -800s on slot controlled airports. Though they have said that was their intent in numerous articles, I think they wanted the -800 more for leisure routes like the Caribbean, Hawaii, Latin America, and Alaska. To me, those are much more useful to the Company than DCA or wherever else. The -800 costs roughly the same to operate as a -700, hence putting them on leisure routes.

Again, I've said it before, theres no way WN would have the -800s installed ETOPS ready if they had no intent or were iffy on going to Hawaii. That would be too much of a waste of money.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
airliner371
Posts: 2060
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:22 am

Quote:
What's being outsourced at MDW?

There was a thread a little while ago that SWA was trying to out source some MDW ramp employees and the MDW employees picketed.
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 3351
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:23 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 7):
Why would the media care about this? I don't think America is on the edge of their seats waiting to see if WN will get ETOPS certification or not.

The stock market cares. News like this would get extrapolated to a point where, 'Southwest is in dire financial trouble!!!'
 
xdlx
Posts: 681
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:29 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:11 am

WN was capable in over 25 years to grow and become a national trunk carrier.

But whoever was the project manager for the Merger should be fired..... No foresight with the computer
problems, integration problems, scheduling problems...... and the list goes on.
If this proves to be true....... who is running this company? You go and purchase $40-60m airplanes and
then you negotiate? with the unions ?

Be real!
 
YYZatcboy
Posts: 1002
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:15 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:39 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 19):
No, not at all. There are a few rumors that WN was doing some proving runs on revenue flights across country with paxs on board. But you can't do proving runs with paxs and it would have to be a maintenance flight. Also, the rumor came from pilots  

Completely and totally untrue. You can do ETOPS proving runs between any city pair that is long enough. LAS-MDW for example. They run the flight like it's etops, with etops entry and exit and and ETP and ETOPS fuel and MTC regs in place for it. They can have passengers on these flights. That is in fact how all etops proving flights are done.
DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
 
n737aa
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:00 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:47 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 8):
There is also another rumor if the TA FAILS WN will use FL which is Etops approved will server Hawaii until 2015.

Wrong.....love the misinformation on this board.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 16):
If their new airplanes are delivered ETOPS then they'll just have to certify the long range navigation and Communications along with the ETOPS equipment and Proving Runs. It's a little more than just paperwork.

Wrong, its much more than that, infact it has more to do with aircraft configuration control and maintenance reliability. It takes time to prove that your proposed fleet and maintenance program meet the reliability requirements for ETOPS. We all remember the G4 fiasco in getting their ETOPS certification.....it takes time.

N737AA
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4463
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:25 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 1):
I thought they were all amped up about starting int'l and Hawaii services with the 738s.

When did WN announce Hawaii and international service?
 
wwtraveler99
Topic Author
Posts: 194
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:34 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:46 pm

Is there aywhere to find out where they are in the process. Or is it just something we only know by the information that the airlines wants to give out?


Also thanks for the replies. Looks like this was just what is was .... a rumor.


WW
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 1733
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:04 pm

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 19):
True. I personally never believed that WN wanted to use the -800s on slot controlled airports. Though they have said that was their intent in numerous articles, I think they wanted the -800 more for leisure routes like the Caribbean, Hawaii, Latin America, and Alaska. To me, those are much more useful to the Company than DCA or wherever else. The -800 costs roughly the same to operate as a -700, hence putting them on leisure routes.

Again, I've said it before, theres no way WN would have the -800s installed ETOPS ready if they had no intent or were iffy on going to Hawaii. That would be too much of a waste of money.

Well sir I can confirm for you that slot controlled airports was one the reasons for getting the 800. Particularly high yield markets with slot controlled airports. (ie LGA). They did not order 75 -800's just for dedicated services outside the continental US. Maybe it wasn't confirmed externally, but this is the truth. Think about it, if it cost the same to operate either aircraft wouldn't you go with the one that has more seats (+32 seats) ? ( If you can fill it? Which we can)
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3719
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:34 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
I'm pretty sure a King Air could cross any body of water since business aircraft don't have to comply with ETOPS. Doesn't make it a good idea though.

I have done it in a 208....hit a thunderstorm .....can't say I plan on doing it again
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
airbazar
Posts: 6874
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:56 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 6):

ETOPS isn't necessarily specific to an area but it's not really required for Caribbean operations.

True, however it's up to each airline to decide what a suitablle airport is for them.
Many flights over Africa for example operate under ETOPS rules because the airlines don't want to land on just any airport. If WN decides that there isn't a suitable airport with 60 minutes they'd have to have ETOPS to fly the route. Unlikely yes but not inconceivable.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11428
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 27):
Well sir I can confirm for you that slot controlled airports was one the reasons for getting the 800. Particularly high yield markets with slot controlled airports. (ie LGA)

Keep in mind, too, that WN has operational limitations that act a lot like slots but are not slots at a number of large stations (particularly MDW, LAX and STL).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 846
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:24 pm

Now with this "rumor" and any variation of it do I believe any of it? No
Yes I did post the reasons I was told and the rumor of FL doing Hawaii flying.
I think a lot of near future plans like Hawaii is 100% depending on the out come of the side letter vote with the FA group.
If for some reason this 2nd attempt at reaching a agreement fails.
I do believe WN will put Hawaii plans for WN only on hold.
FL pre merger already had plans for getting Etops.
There crews are already trained in overwater operations.
15 or 20 of their planes I have been told are setup and can be Etops ready quickly if needed.
Now should the FA side letter fail to pass.
FL as a backup plan for Hawaii sounds great.
The code share is something like 60% done and almost ready.
So by the time they would start Hawaii FL will be connected to WN.
Plus FL doing Hawaii WN can outsource all the ground work on the islands.
From what I hear the new WN likes the cost per flight on outsourcing now VS having company staffing.
What path will WN head?
AT 1230 Herb time Friday results will be in on the FA group.
Wnfg
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
barney captain
Posts: 1409
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:12 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 31):
FL pre merger already had plans for getting Etops

You don't understand ETOP's certification - it is entirely carrier specific. There would be ZERO logic in getting "FL" ETOPS certified because they will cease to exist (per the pilot contract) at the end of 2014. At that point, all aircraft and pilots will have been converted to WN.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 31):
There crews are already trained in overwater operations.

Over-water trained and ETOPS trained (at least for the pilots) are 2 completely different things. The WN pilots are currently completing over-water/class II NAV training as we speak - ETOPS training isn't even being scheduled.

We're also hearing that ETOPS has been moved from the back burner to somewhere off the stove. I suspect the focus has shifted to Caribbean/Alaska.....
Southeast Of Disorder
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:58 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):
heck a King air can probably cross the Gulf

They do this all the time, northbound, filled with "cargo" ...

 
 
strfyr51
Posts: 2108
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:21 am

Quoting barney captain (Reply 32):

There are NOT only ETOPS pilot Procedures but Maintenance Procedures as well. and Maintenance control and reporting is essential for ETOPS certification. Etops Critical systems like the APU, Fuel and Environmental (Air conditioning pneumatics and pressurization) systems are all ETOPS critical, and require an ETOPS en route Veriification flight before entering ETOPS operation after Maintenance. Engine reporting, Navigation and Parts are all Affected by ETOPS. A flight control Computer that Might be OK for domestic operations Might NOT be good for ETOPS, as might be a wing mounted fuel Boost pump, Or Hydraulic Pump . I've never certified or Had to work with an ETOPS 737 series airplane though I suspect very soon I'll get my chance.. I'm sure it's not much different from the 757,767,777 and even the 747 (yes the 747 !)
(there ARE engine reporting ETOPS requirements for the 747 as UAL's PW 4056's are interchangeable to the 767-322 in the PW 4060 configuration.
 
barney captain
Posts: 1409
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:41 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 34):
There are NOT only ETOPS pilot Procedures but Maintenance Procedures as well.

Absolutely. In fact, the MX end of the ETOPS certification is by far the most complicated.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
737tdi
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:05 am

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 35):
Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 34):
There are NOT only ETOPS pilot Procedures but Maintenance Procedures as well.

Absolutely. In fact, the MX end of the ETOPS certification is by far the most complicated.




I can say, as a WN line mech. they must not be in any big rush. Heck, I haven't even been to the 800 differences course, including ETOPS familiarization. Granted I do work at a station that won't see many, if any 800's (maybe a charter), for a while. I can say that the aircraft delivered as ETOPS ready are/will be maintained per that program whether WN is ETOPS approved or not. We just can't fly the routes until officially approved.
 
SKC
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:48 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:50 pm

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 23):
Completely and totally untrue. You can do ETOPS proving runs between any city pair that is long enough. LAS-MDW for example. They run the flight like it's etops, with etops entry and exit and and ETP and ETOPS fuel and MTC regs in place for it. They can have passengers on these flights. That is in fact how all etops proving flights are done.

I don't know of any carrier that does "proving runs" with revenue passengers on board. Those are the flights with the FAA on board running various scenarios to see how the pilots, mechanics, dispatch, and everyone else handles non-standard events. There are typically simulated engine failures, diversions, among other emergencies. These would not be typically performed with passengers.

You're describing simulated ETOPS flights. A carrier shows the FAA that they have completed all the steps for ETOPS but the FAA wants the carrier to complete xxx hours (could be 6 months worth) operating normal non-ETOPS routes, yet simulating the ETOPS environment (as you described). After the FAA is satisfied, they will conduct the proving runs and after these handful of flights are completed, then ETOPS authorization is granted.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SKC
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:48 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:23 pm

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 19):
There are a few rumors that WN was doing some proving runs on revenue flights across country with paxs on board. But you can't do proving runs with paxs and it would have to be a maintenance flight. Also, the rumor came from pilots

There have been no proving runs, tabletop exercises, or simulated ETOPS flights operated by Southwest (or FL for that matter) at this time. SWA doesn't even have the capability at this point to compute an ETOPS flight plan.

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 19):
I've heard that proving runs might be done in the AUG-OCT 2013 time frame in order to start an OCT-DEC 2013 service. Again, more hearsay. In terms of cold hard facts, WN has released nothing regarding Hawaii or ETOPS.



I don't know that the company could meet that timetable. Tabletop exercises and simulated ETOPS flight would have to begin 1Q13 in order to be ready for a 3Q13 proving run schedule. Internal computer systems won't be ready for ETOPS flight planning until after the new year. I've yet to hear a good date to even begin testing, much less, deployment.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Silver1SWA
Crew
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: RUMOR: WN Pulls Etops App (can Anyone Confirm)

Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:54 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 20):
Quote:
What's being outsourced at MDW?

There was a thread a little while ago that SWA was trying to out source some MDW ramp employees and the MDW employees picketed.


Incorrect. Nothing is being outsourced at MDW. The fuss is about proposed contract language that would allow the company to outsource up to 20% of ramp work system-wide, particularly smaller cities. MDW was just the venue for the protest.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Glidesloper, SAAFNAV and 14 guests