smartt1982
Topic Author
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:17 pm

Airmanship Questions

Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:38 pm

Just hoping some people could help me out with info on the following items

Looking through the QRH on the Engine Failure shutdown checklist “Do an engine shutdown only when flight conditions allow”. What sort of situation would this be referring to? In my mind what I would think is the Low oil pressure situation and you need to do a shutdown to prevent any further damage being done, should you still wait 3 mins for cooling prior to shutting it down? Or would be more related to phase of flight i.e. in a climb so wait till you level off?

On the engine Fuel leak checklist its says “a diversion may be necessary”. For the airline pilots out there, at that stage of the checklist/that moment in time would you do anything like start heading towards a diversion right then, speak to ATC and/or slow down stop climbing?. I am just thinking of the scenario where I would slow down/level off and begin to head towards a diversion and then after completing the checklist we have not in fact not got any issue but I have then compromised my flight route/burned too much fuel to make my intended and original destination.

In the case of shutting down an engine, what is the best way to put this across on a PA to the pax, just call it a technical issue etc?

Thanks
 
saab2000
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:19 pm

RE: Airmanship Questions

Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:47 pm

Aviate
Navigate
Communicate
Always fly the airplane first

These are basic issues of airmanship. Any checklist that calls for the shutdown of an engine is to be taken quite seriously. If the weather is clear, you are clear of obstacles, the ATC environment is quiet, etc. this checklist can be done more quickly. If the weather is crappy and you're dodging weather at the same time an engine decides to puke and you're in the airspace of New York on a Monday morning you have to prioritize differently.

Fly the airplane, make sure you're going where you need to go (laterally and vertically), inform ATC and run the checklist. In that order, but more or less simultaneously. But do it logically and systematically and it'll work out just fine.
smrtrthnu
 
Pihero
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RE: Airmanship Questions

Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:41 pm

Quoting smartt1982 (Thread starter):
Looking through the QRH on the Engine Failure shutdown checklist %u201CDo an engine shutdown only when flight conditions allow

To talk in a very broad sense, shut the engine down if you really don't need it ...OR... keeping it running would not make your situation worse ( Fire risk being paramount)... An idling engine may not provide a lot of thrust but at the very least it will ensure normal systems : hydraulics, electrical, pneumatics.. etc...
Remember, we are in the business of keeping an optimum level of flight saafety, not in engine conservation.
Also remember that on a twin, an engine out is an emergency and all QRHs say : "Land ASAP". That means that an engine malfunction -on a twin - during climb means a return to departure... From that sort of resoning, the use of a deficient engine - or not - becomes quite obvious.

Quoting smartt1982 (Thread starter):

On the engine fuel leak checklist its says "a diversion may be necessary". For the airline pilots out there, at that stage of the checklist/that moment in time would you do anything like start heading towards a diversion right then, speak to ATC and/or slow down stop climbing?

The problem with the management of a fuel leak is that generally it's not an immediate-response situation : one has to wait several minutes before one's actions have a visible effect on the fuel system... Another aspect is that there are leaks that can only be controlled with the shut-down of the affected engine (case of the leak past the LP valve ).
So... It would be wise to steer as soon as possible / as close as possible to a suitable airport just in case.
Contrail designer
 
SAAFNAV
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:41 pm

RE: Airmanship Questions

Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:13 pm

You always have to think about the 'Greater Emergency'.

For example, we have 14 engine shutdown conditions on our aircraft. Some are more 'important' than others.

For example, if you are climbing out from take-off over an obstacle, and you get an engine fire, you should rather attempt to keep than engine running.. If it is turning under power, it creates thrust, and that might save you.. Once you are clear of the obstacle you can secure the engine.
Same scenario, if you have a propeller malfunction, you feather IMMEDIATELY. That malfunctioning prop will give you 6x more drag than a feathered prop, and if your speed is low, you will die.

On the other hand, in a cruise, you may monitor the situation, something might be an indication problem.

It's nice gesture to prevent further damage to your aircraft, but the rule is:

Save your ass.
Save your aircraft.
Save your mission.
On-board Direction Consultant
 
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jumbojim747
Posts: 2426
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:05 pm

RE: Airmanship Questions

Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:20 pm

Quoting saab2000 (Reply 1):

This is gold well said and im glad pilots think this way
On a wing and a prayer

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