Max Q
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Question On Biman DC10

Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:45 pm

In the cockpit picture of the Biman Bangladesh DC10 on the home page there is a small display on the left side of each Pilots airspeed indicator.


Anyone know what this is ?
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bueb0g
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:52 pm

Looks like a little retrofit ND to go with the retrofitted FMC's.
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Max Q
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:22 pm

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 1):
ago) and read 12 times:

Looks like a little retrofit ND to go with the retrofitted FMC's

I could see that as a possibility but why not retrofit with an EHSI that would give you a far bigger ND as on some DC10's ?

[Edited 2012-10-03 15:22:42]
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BoeingGuy
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:37 pm

It's the VSI/TCAS display. They pulled out the old "steam gauge" mechanical Vertical Speed Indicator, and replaced it with that when the airplane was equipped with TCAS.

This was a common way to retrofit TCAS display information on non-EFIS airplanes. The TCAS traffic symbols themselves show on the display. There's a red band that will show on the Vertical Speed Indication giving the crews guidance commands if they get a TCAS RA (Resolution Advisory). The red band will show the crew what vertical speed range to stay out of (e.g. climb at more than 1000 feet/minute).

Of the various solutions to retrofit TCAS onto older airplanes, this way was common, especially on MD-80s and non-EFIS 737 "Classics".

[Edited 2012-10-04 07:47:54]
 
flymia
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:38 pm

Here is the picture:
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Benny Zheng

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 3):
It's the VSI/TCAS display. They pulled out the old "steam gauge" mechanical Vertical Speed Indicator, and replaced it with that when the airplane was equipped with TCAS.

That is on the right side where the VS indicator always is. What he is talking about is a small digital screen on the left side.

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 1):
Looks like a little retrofit ND to go with the retrofitted FMC's.

I agree. I never seen one that small but that seems to be what it is. Usually they just put in a modern ND and replace the old one of have a larger one in the center pedestal.

I am guesing that is also the weather radar? Or maybe it is only a weather radar that could be possible too.
The cockpit of that DC-10 looks awesome too.
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bueb0g
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:40 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 3):

It's the VSI/TCAS display. They pulled out the old "steam gauge" mechanical Vertical Speed Indicator, and replaced it with that when the airplane was equipped with TCAS.

No, we're not talking about the VSI/TCAS one (below the altimeter, to the right of the VOR), but rather the one directly to the left of the ASI.
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tb727
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:54 pm

It might be a TAWS indicator?
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bueb0g
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:20 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 4):
I am guesing that is also the weather radar? Or maybe it is only a weather radar that could be possible too.

I think the wx radar is the CRT screen next to the tiller.
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Max Q
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:54 pm

I don't think it's to display TCAS info, that can usually be displayed on the Weather radar screen.


ND display makes the most sense but we don't seem to have an authoritative answer yet !
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N747PA
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:05 pm

Could it be a metric altimeter?
 
Max Q
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:16 am

Quoting N747pa (Reply 9):
Could it be a metric altimeter?

Possibility but it seems very large for that function.


Of interest is the tiller on the right side of the cockpit as well as the left.
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bueb0g
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:44 am

Tom, where are you when you're needed? :P
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tom355uk
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:33 pm

Not the right Tom, but I'd pretty much bet my house (if I had one) that it is a navigation display.

I'm almost certain that a navigation display is required for RNAV purposes, as you can't show true RNAV departure and arrival tracks on an old-school HSI. It was probably cheaper to install a small nav display than replace the whole HSI unit with a brand new EHSI - something important to a carrier like Biman who just need the DC10's to tread water for a little while longer until their 77W's are delivered.
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tdscanuck
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:57 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 8):
I don't think it's to display TCAS info, that can usually be displayed on the Weather radar screen.

In addition to that, TCAS can trigger targets at any bearing but that display format won't support targets in the aft 180 degrees.

Quoting N747pa (Reply 9):

Could it be a metric altimeter?

It could be anything, but it's the wrong format for an altimeter.

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 11):

Tom, where are you when you're needed?

Sorry, late to the party (Max Q just tipped me off that I should take a look). I looked through all the documentation I could find and all the STC's and I don't know what it is. It certainly could be a little ND...it's the right format and you need an ND to do RNAV as far as I can tell, but I can't find any definitive data to match that picture to a real device. This is going to annoy me for days...

Tom.
 
Max Q
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:34 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 13):

Sorry, late to the party (Max Q just tipped me off that I should take a look). I looked through all the documentation I could find and all the STC's and I don't know what it is. It certainly could be a little ND...it's the right format and you need an ND to do RNAV as far as I can tell, but I can't find any definitive data to match that picture to a real device. This is going to annoy me for days...

If anyone can give us the straight scoop here it's you Tom, look forward to what you can find out !
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tom355uk
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:01 pm

This too has really puzzled me, I even tried to find a decent YouTube video. There are a couple actually from a Biman DC10, where you can see this 'display' in action. It does seem to confirm it as a Navigation or EHSI type display - however any sort of course or track line cannot be distinguished. You can make out what looks like WX radar returns, or more unlikely a Terrain return.

http://youtu.be/s9LimHFvW_c

http://youtu.be/KOU7SMMDyZ4


These units have replaced the standard fit clock, by the way.
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Max Q
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:52 pm

It does look like an ND display, but, as you say you just can't see much detail.


A very unusual installation, anyone ever see anything like this before ?
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freeze3192
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:25 am

This looks like it's just a WX radar display. No ND, no TCAS, weather radar only. The TCAS is on the IVSI indicator (like this: http://www.skybrary.aero/images/IVSI.jpg) and the FMS course is navigated by way of the HSI.

I got to pay quite a long visit to the flight deck of an Omni DC-10 back in the day. It had an upgraded version of this display. WX, NAV, TERR, TRFC and AUX were all the modes that were available. So it could do pretty much everything that a modern ND could do.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8403/dsc1337x.jpg
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freeze3192
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RE: Question On Biman DC10

Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:28 am

Disregard, just realized what the OP was actually looking at.
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