scrappy27
Topic Author
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:18 pm

Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:07 pm

I was just curious as to how many crew, for various airlines work in the Premium cabins.. ie First & Business..

For example on BA we have:

747 14 F seats... 3 crew
52 J seats... 5 crew (2 upper deck, 3 main deck)
70 J seats... 6 crew (2 upper deck, 4 main deck)

777 17, 14 or 12 F seats... 3 crew
48 J seats... 4 crew

773 14 F seats... 3 crew
56 J seats... 5 crew

Interested to hear crewing levels on other airlines...
 
bastew
Posts: 741
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:11 pm

I think at BA we have a pretty poor crew - passenger ratio in the Premium cabins. It will always be a limiting factor in improving the inflight product. You can only get so much blood from a stone so to speak.

First class is fine with three crew.

But Club can be a bit of a mess, especially on the 70J 747. In all the BA crew ratios listed above, the Cabin Service Director is included in the crew count. But they are often called away to deal with other issues during the service (faulty IFE, problems with pax etc).

Compare our J class crew - passenger ratio with say, Qantas. Their A380 has 72 J class seats so is pretty much the same as our 'high J' 747 (70 seats). Qantas has eight crew working in their J class cabin (7 plus the CSM) compared with our six at BA (which also includes our CSD). It makes a big difference to the product.

And lets not forget Premium Economy.

Again, a like for like comparison with Qantas. BA has on the 747 (mid J config) a separate cabin with 36 World Traveller Plus seats. There is one crew member for that cabin. Qantas has 32 seats in their Premium Economy on the Upper Deck of the A380 with TWO crew dedicated to that cabin. Again, makes a big difference.
 
APYu
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:19 pm

I think this it the reason BA are trying to reduce their crew cost base, so adding additional crew members isn't such an expensive exercise.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
bastew
Posts: 741
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:26 pm

APYu then the question has to be asked then....why is the passenger - crew ratio not increased on flights now operated by new contract (low cost) crew on Mixed Fleet?
 
CONTACREW
Posts: 542
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:34 pm

On the sCO side of UA the staffing levels in BusinessFirst on international flights are:

B777-200 50J Seats 12 FAs (7 in BusinessFirst)
B767-400 39J Seats, 20J Seats 10 FAs (5 in BusinessFirst)
B767-200 25J Seats 8 FAs (3 in BusinessFirst)
B757-200 16J Seats 6 FAs (2 in BusinessFirst)

[Edited 2012-10-11 06:35:54]

[Edited 2012-10-11 06:36:50]
Flight Attendants prepare doors for departure, cross check verify straps standby for all call
 
APYu
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:35 pm

Perhaps it would make performance comparison across the fleets impossible to do accurately. Perhaps also it could upset the expensive crew and make them kick off again ("why do we have to work harder..." etc.). Perhaps it would lead to passengers coming to expect the increase staffing levels on all flights, thereby causing passenger upset on those flights being operating on the lower crew numbers.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
scrappy27
Topic Author
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:18 pm

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:09 pm

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 4):

thanks Contacrew..

Anyone from EK, SQ, QF, MH, QR..... infact any other airline like to share the info ???  
 
tonystan
Posts: 1265
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:28 pm

Quoting APYu (Reply 5):
Perhaps also it could upset the expensive crew and make them kick off again ("why do we have to work harder..." etc.).

I think you need to develop a greater understanding and respect for your colleagues on other fleets, especially those with a wealth of experience. Not everything should be about "cost"!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
tcavanguard
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:39 pm

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:19 pm

Wow!

This is what the crews tell me when I fly Air Canada.

767-300 187Y 25J Total 6 ....2 for J

777-300 307Y 42J Total 10....3 for J

A330-300 228Y 37J Total 8......3 for J


The staffing levels were reduced by 1 in J in a year or so ago and the crews used to complain to me all the time. At the end of the two hour dinner - that never seems to end! - 2 flight attendants come from Y to help clean up and stuff.

On the extra long flights to HKG I think they put on an extra FA but they disappear after the meal service as they have their crew rest in the back.

Great seats in J but the service is just too slow. Looking at the numbers in the other posts, now I know why!
 
APYu
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:21 pm

Tony, the question I was answering related to cost - see the question BA Stew posed.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
scrappy27
Topic Author
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:18 pm

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:30 pm

Quoting tcavanguard (Reply 8):

Thanks!
 
LHRFlyer
Posts: 695
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:23 pm

The changes to crewing levels saved BA £60m a year. I don't see any changes to reverse them unless there is a significant increase in workloads to justify the extra expense and there are a lot of other areas in which money could be spent to improve the passenger experience. After all the battles BA had to go through to push through the crewing level changes, politically, no-one in senior management is going to sponsor a proposal for board approval and even if someone did I doubt the BA/IAG boards would approve it without, as I say, an increase in workloads to justify it.
 
qf002
Posts: 3079
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:26 pm

Quoting scrappy27 (Reply 6):
EK

I know EK has 3 in F on all aircraft. I'll contact somebody in the know and find out about their J crews!
 
ei912
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 5:36 pm

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:23 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 12):
I know EK has 3 in F on all aircraft. I'll contact somebody in the know and find out about their J crews!

As far as I know, thats not exactly correct.

777 has 2 in F, 380 has 3 in F (in addition to the CSA). On ULR's there is one extra crew in F.

In J, there is 4 on 777 and 8 on 380 (one crew dedicated to the bar).

[Edited 2012-10-11 11:31:27]
 
qf002
Posts: 3079
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:17 pm

Quoting EI912 (Reply 13):

I might well be quoting a figure that includes the Purser as a F crew member... I'll see what response I get!
 
AR385
Posts: 6741
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:24 pm

LH has 3 in its 744 F. Two seem to be fixed, and the third appears once so often. Definitely at meals and at other times. But there are two that are definitely there all the time.
 
tonystan
Posts: 1265
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:30 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 11):
The changes to crewing levels saved BA £60m a year. I don't see any changes to reverse them unless there is a significant increase in workloads to justify the extra expense and there are a lot of other areas in which money could be spent to improve the passenger experience. After all the battles BA had to go through to push through the crewing level changes, politically, no-one in senior management is going to sponsor a proposal for board approval and even if someone did I doubt the BA/IAG boards would approve it without, as I say, an increase in workloads to justify it.

Totally agreed with you there.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:51 am

Here is Qantas...

A380
First: 3 (2 Cabin Operators 1 Galley-Dedicated)
Business 10
Premium Economy 2

744 (Pacifc Config)
14 P class - 3 (2 Cabin 1 Galley-Dedicated)
42 J-Class Maindeck 4 (2 Cabin 1 galley-dedicated 1 CSM)
24 J-class U/D 2 (1 Cabin 1 Galley dedicted)
40 W class 2 (2 Crew Galley operators also works cabin)

744 N (New config 9 aircraft so far)
40 J class-Maindeck- 4 (2 Cabin 1 Galleydedicated 1 CSM)
18 J class-U/D- 2 (1 Cabin 1 Galley) BEST place to be on this aircraft but very senior.
36 W class - 2 (2 CRew galley also works cabin)

744 2 class (FRA trip dedicated)
32 J-class Maindeck 3 (2 Cabin 1 Galley dedicated)
24 J class U/D 2 (1 Cabin 1 Galley)
40 W Class 2 (2 Cabin Galley works cabin)

744 Kangaroo
14 P class 3 (2 Cabin 1 Galley dedicated)
28 Jclass maindeck 3 (1 Cabin 1 Galley dedicated 1 CSM)
14 J class U/D 2 (1 Cabin 1 Galley Dedicated)

744 Cosmetic config (First is on this aircraft but sold as J class and extra 14 J class seats sold as Premium YC)
14 J class 2 (1 cabin 1 galley dedicated)
28 J class maindeck 3 (1 Cabin 1 Galley CSM)
24 J class U/D 2 (1 cabin 1 galley dedicated)

330-200 Intl.
36 J class seats 4 (2 Cabin 1 Galley 1 CSM)

330-200 Domestic 3 (2 Cabin Galley works cabin also and 1 CSM)

330-300
30 J class seats 3 (1 Cabin 1 Galley 1 CSM) (We used to have 4 on this aircraft but they took them off...was nice to work with 4 crew, service was much easier)

767-300 Intl
All Business sectors have 3 crew regardless of config - I think Dinner service on domestic has extra crew but only for that service. On intl. there is only one dedicated cabin operator, the other is the Galley and teh CSM works here also.

Reading through it looks like sCO has the best Pax to Crew ratio....Must be nice for those crews.

Hope this helps...
Interesting to read about others.

[Edited 2012-10-11 19:55:39]
 
scrappy27
Topic Author
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:18 pm

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:21 am

Quoting EI912 (Reply 13):
Quoting airnewzealand (Reply 17):

Thanks very much....
keep them coming  
 
Ditzyboy
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:15 am

RE: Airlines' Crewing Levels In Premium Cabins..

Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:54 pm

Quoting airnewzealand (Reply 17):
A380
First: 3 (2 Cabin Operators 1 Galley-Dedicated)
Business 10
Premium Economy 2

The A380 has 7 in Business. On non-reconfigured aircraft (72J), the CSM and W cabin operator are written into the service at various times.

On reconfigured aircraft a team of 3 look after the W and Y cabin upstairs - 1 dedicated galley and 2 cabin.

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