YXD172
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WS Caribbean Ops

Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:32 am

How many aircraft in WS's fleet are equipped with life rafts (vs PFDs) and how are these aircraft normally used in terms of Caribbean vs Hawaiian ops? I ask this because I noticed on my last flight with WS (SXM-YUL) that the aircraft was not equipped with rafts, and so we had to follow the islands/US east coast to get up to YUL, making the flight a solid 40 min late even with an on time departure.

I assume that this flight would've been scheduled for an overwater-equipped aircraft and that there was an equipment sub somewhere down the line?
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cylw
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RE: WS Caribbean Ops

Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:36 am

No rafts installed or required on the Caribbean flights. All of WS routes over the Atlantic are within 400nm of a suitable aerodrome.

All ETOPS flights have rafts.

The route you took back was either the most efficient that day or possibly had an MEL item that required the flight to have a longer route that day. Definitely nothing to do with rafts.
 
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longhauler
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RE: WS Caribbean Ops

Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:06 pm

Quoting CYLW (Reply 1):
No rafts installed or required on the Caribbean flights. All of WS routes over the Atlantic are within 400nm of a suitable aerodrome.

There are two things required to fly through New York oceanic. (among other things). Life rafts, which would most certainly be required to fly SXM-YUL, and HF radios. Unless they had both, (and it sounds like they didn't), they would have to take the "long way" around.

The non-HF route takes you over Puerto Rico, then along the Turks/Bahamas to a point about 180nm north of NAS, then straight north to ILM, then to YUL, And ... about 40 minutes longer than a correctly equipped aircraft sounds about right. The non-life raft route would allow you in New York Oceanic, but only on the two furthest west airways.

As this is a very expensive way to do business, I would guess that it was an equipment substitution.
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cylw
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RE: WS Caribbean Ops

Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:53 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2):
There are two things required to fly through New York oceanic. (among other things). Life rafts, which would most certainly be required to fly SXM-YUL, and HF radios. Unless they had both, (and it sounds like they didn't), they would have to take the "long way" around.

I can guarantee WS does not have life rafts on WATRS flights. All WS routes in NY Oceanic are planned to avoid routes that require life rafts. L459 is as far east as you can plan without requiring rafts. All other routes meet the requirements assuming suitable aerodromes are available.
 
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longhauler
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RE: WS Caribbean Ops

Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:29 pm

Quoting CYLW (Reply 3):
I can guarantee WS does not have life rafts on WATRS flights. All WS routes in NY Oceanic are planned to avoid routes that require life rafts. L459 is as far east as you can plan without requiring rafts. All other routes meet the requirements assuming suitable aerodromes are available.

Yes, that's what I see as well. Coming from SXM, the ideal route to YUL would involve flying over ANU then BDA, then north. And as you note, those two airways from ANU north, do not comply with the 400nm rule.

The route the OP described though, makes me thing the issue was not over-water equipment, but HF radios, as to enter New York Oceanic airspace, HF radios are required. Are all WS B737s HF radio/SELCAL equipped?
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cylw
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RE: WS Caribbean Ops

Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:16 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 4):
The route the OP described though, makes me thing the issue was not over-water equipment, but HF radios, as to enter New York Oceanic airspace, HF radios are required. Are all WS B737s HF radio/SELCAL equipped?

Yes I agree. Sounds like a routing to avoid HF. Likely stopped working enroute down to SXM and had to be deferred.

All but one of the 737s, and all of the 738s have HF
 
YXD172
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RE: WS Caribbean Ops

Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:38 pm

If it helps, here is the flight in question:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/W...5/history/20121231/2115Z/TNCM/CYUL

According to flightaware, our flight was ~500km longer than WS' flight this past week
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/W...5/history/20130107/2115Z/TNCM/CYUL

So I guess it was just a matter of HF radios then? Looks like I was on FTWJ, this week the flight was operated by GTWS
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: WS Caribbean Ops

Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:42 am

Quoting YXD172 (Reply 6):

IF you check WJ2884, the inbound from YUL, it only took 3.5 hours and went out over BDA and they more direct route. This points to probably having something stop working either inflight or maybe on the ground.
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YXD172
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RE: WS Caribbean Ops

Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:47 pm

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 7):

IF you check WJ2884, the inbound from YUL, it only took 3.5 hours and went out over BDA and they more direct route. This points to probably having something stop working either inflight or maybe on the ground.

Good catch! Thanks for the help everyone!
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