bobbydgg
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Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:31 am

What destinations require airlines to stock outbound flights with return catering?
 
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BreninTW
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:36 am

I know CX used to cater both legs on its HKG - MNL flights from HKG. Caused some issues when my return flight MNL - HKG was delayed for four hours due to an engine issue.

We cleaned out the food and drink on board before we'd even left the gate ... CX bought in whatever they could from the airport and surrounds, and even that wasn't enough.

I don't remember if they brought in catering on the flight that also brought in the required engine parts ... I don't think so though.
 
YXD172
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:56 am

Talking to an FA, I learned that AC stocks its YUL-ANU flight for the return, so I assume the same is done for much of the Caribbean. Unfortunately in our case, they were flying home empty that day and so few 'healthy options' seemed to be on board!
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1337Delta764
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:26 am

ABQ no longer has any airline catering companies operating there; LSG Sky Chefs pulled out in 2009. I know DL's flights between ABQ and ATL are now catered roundtrip.
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chepos
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:30 am

Double provisioning is a pain in the rear end, due to cost many of the airlines double provision flights to the lesser Antilles in the Caribbean. In Hawaii for example - KOA and LIH are very expensive so some airlines double provision, KOA or LIH I can't remember only has a hotel who provisions meals and they charge a whole lot of dough. Unless they have recently changed one of those two do not have a catering company.
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justinlee
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:37 am

Many of the airports in Tibet don't have fuel, catering or snow removal equipment. Planes need to carry return fuel and catering. Sometimes the check-in agents will let all the passengers to go outside and remove the snow on the runway. Very tough job !
 
david21487
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:08 am

Quoting chepos (Reply 4):
Double provisioning is a pain in the rear end

It certainly is.

I've been in situations before where I've originated in an outstation only to find out that the F meals for the morning departure were never catered the night before. I also once worked a morning flight that was supposed to have a breakfast service in F. When I opened the cart, it was full of dirty meal trays. The cart was clearly marked with a bright orange "downline service" sticker, but the inbound F/A's served the BREAKFAST on the inbound flight the night before.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
I know DL's flights between ABQ and ATL are now catered roundtrip.

The coach supplies are round tripped, but the meals for F are provided by one of the airport restaurants. It's that way in TUS and ELP as well.
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fly2yyz
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:57 am

All of TS catering on down south flights i.e Canada-Caribbean is return catered.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:18 am

I think most of BA shorhaul is catered for roundtrips... All the waraps and sandwiches served are supplied in London.
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debonair
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:31 am

Quoting bobbydgg (Thread starter):
What destinations require airlines to stock outbound flights with return catering?

Normally, at least for German airlines, all destinations without proper catering will see return catering. Some airports/countries are "black-listed", as these doesn't offer catering to international hygienic standards- like Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Cuba etc.!
 
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vhtje
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:14 am

What an interesting topic - thanks for posting.

As a passenger I have often wondered about this. BA is the only airline I fly with enough frequency to give me authority to comment on this topic as a passenger. I've noticed that BA's meals on long haul flights can be very, very variable depending upon if I am outbound or inbound to LHR. The last flight I took on BA was from SYD to SIN in J - the food was actually inedible (some fish coconut curry thing which had curdled). On the other hand, I have had absolutely wonderful fresh vegetarian pasta dishes for luncheon in W flying LHR to ORD.

I have always assumed this variance was due to the quality of the caterers at the destination point. But how can BA allow such a vast variance in the quality of the meals they serve? Do they not have stringent quality controls and quality standards built into their contracts with the caterers?
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:50 am

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 8):
I think most of BA shorhaul is catered for roundtrips... All the waraps and sandwiches served are supplied in London.

Nearly all food on BA European is prepared and cooked in LON.
Nearly all meals are round trip catered from LON.
Breakfast service is loaded abroad, but the meals are supplied frozen from LON.
Outstation caterers hold a stock of meals in the freezer in case they are required.
The main driver for all this was the cost of driving a delivery truck out to each aircraft turnround.
It is cheaper to overcater the aircraft from LON.
 
edina
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:23 am

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 11):

Spot on, with the exception of the longer Euro destinations (known as Band 4), where hot meals are served in both cabins.

Meals are loaded in ATH, IST, KBP, LCA, LED, SOF & TIP for the return sector to LHR. AGA is another Band 4 station; however there is currently no suitable airline caterer there, so flights are return catered from LHR, with standard Band 4 service in Club Europe, and Band 3 double wraps in Euro Traveller. Due to stowage limitations there is also no inflight retail to/from AGA.
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neutrino
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:26 am

I have long noticed that on the regional flights I have been on of up to 210mins to and from SIN (about twenty-odd LCC & legacy airlines), the food are almost without exception sourced from the airlines' home countries.
For longer trips (Australia, Europe & USA), the catering are only outbound from what I experienced.
Can't recall much of the medium hauls as I have not been on many of those.
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jamesontheroad
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:49 am

Someone else will be able to provide more details than I can, but I recall that one of the first major British charter airlines launched sunshine flights from the UK in 1960s with outbound and inbound meals/snacks loaded into compartments in the seat backs. The stewardesses would pass through the cabin on the turn around unlocking the second compartment so that return passengers could serve themselves.

I believed it worked ok until outbound passengers realised they could help themselves to another sandwich by forcing the compartment open 
 
edina
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:51 am

Quoting jamesontheroad (Reply 14):

Both DanAir & Court Line used seatback catering.
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cricket
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:01 pm

in India, airlines often do return catering on flights to airports with limited connectivity - Bhuj for example. Also, LCC's such as Indigo and SpiceJet which offer rather extensive BOB options usually only cater from large bases such as DEL, BOM, MAA, BLR, HYD and CCU due to quality control issues and the fact that they usually only have one maybe two catering suppliers. That said, Taj Catering has a rather extensive reach inside India thanks to all their hotels all over the country.
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jayeshrulz
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:30 pm

Turkish Airlines brings Catering from IST on its BOM flight. Ambassador's Sky Chef provides them food on demand though. (Quite a long flight, isn't it? )
Also, even Emirates carriers return catering for flights upto 3 hours 50 minutes. They have contract with TajSATS in India for FOD.
Gulf Air Carriers Return food for most of their destinations (Except for flights beyond 5 hours)
Oman Air carries return catering on all their 737 flights.
QR carries return catering in its flights upto 2 hours for quicker turn around times.
Air India carries return catering on its JED and RUH flights from BOM and DEL/HYD respectively.

So this is the little detail which I am aware of that I could provide  
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downtown273
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:39 pm

All easyJet and Ryanair flights are catered for wherever each aircraft is based and with the crew.

If a crew does BFS-LGW-BCN-LGW-BFS then the aircraft is catered in BFS and the food will do all 4 sectors.

New crew, new catering.
 
BAeRJ100
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:46 pm

Virtually all of the FIFO (Fly-in Fly-Out) flights operated in Western Australia have return catering loaded along with the outbound in PER, and it's the cabin crew's responsibility to get it all sorted out on the other end - the airline I work for does complete hot meal services on almost all their flights and luckily we have enough stowage space on our aircraft for both outbound and return catering carts. On the other hand there is one particular aircraft that is a real pain in the butt, it has been configured with only 4 half-cart spaces and limited overhead locker stowage, meaning on turnaround the crew spend all their time disposing of the meals from the previous sector and loading meal trays directly from a dry-iced box brought up from the cargo hold!
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AIR MALTA
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:53 pm

Quoting edina (Reply 12):
AGA is another Band 4 station; however there is currently no suitable airline caterer there, so flights are return catered from LHR, with standard Band 4 service in Club Europe, and Band 3 double wraps in Euro Traveller.

Why can't be freeze the meals for the return trip and heat them up in Economy class.
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aerorobnz
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:59 pm

AKL-NAN-AKL
AKL-APW-AKL
AKL-SYD-AKL
AKL-BNE-AKL
AKL-MEL-AKL
AKL-ADL-AKL
AKL-NLK-AKL
AKL-IUE-AKL
AKL-VLI-AKL
AKL-NOU-AKL

NZ and QF double cater on many flights. It seems a common thing for flights around 3-5h hours in length
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plateman
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:57 pm

I learned (surpringsly) that Aruban catering is done at AUA and the company is owned by an American. Was actually one of the best meals I have ever had on a flight despite the delivery truck looking filthy.
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anstar
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:28 pm

I believe at Virgin Atlantic it is only Havana that is round catered.
 
edina
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:35 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 20):

Seats would need to be taken out, and additional trolley stowages fitted to achieve this too....
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bastew
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:39 pm

Some BA longhaul flights are return catered as well -
LHR-LUN-LHR and
LHR-DAR-LHR spring to mind.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:55 pm

Quoting david21487 (Reply 6):
The coach supplies are round tripped, but the meals for F are provided by one of the airport restaurants. It's that way in TUS and ELP as well.

Everytime I fly out of TUS (to MSP and ATL) the catering flew in with the plane. Coach and first.
 
RKSofACinUSA
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:15 pm

Quoting YXD172 (Reply 2):
Talking to an FA, I learned that AC stocks its YUL-ANU flight for the return, so I assume the same is done for much of the Caribbean.

AC return caters most flights to the eastern US (mostly Florida) in addition to much of the Caribbean.
 
sdak74
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:44 pm

I believe when I flew AF from CDG to DLA and back the catering was brought along from Paris for the return trip.

Wonder if this is the case for many Europe-Africa flights?

[Edited 2013-01-15 07:45:21]
 
ckfred
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:04 pm

When AA went to rolling hubs, it shortened up turnaround times at spoke cities. By this point, AA had done away with meal service in coach, although I can't remember if it had started food for purchase.

So, only first class was getting catered. Coach was getting double catered at ORD, DFW, etc. I remember sitting at ATL and seeing the catering trucks pulling up only to R1, but never the rear serivce door on MD-80s.

However, since AA pulled part of the galley on the MD-80s and the 738s, I don't know if they still double cater narrowbodies at spoke cities.
 
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LHRBFSTrident
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:09 pm

Quoting bastew (Reply 25):

Some BA longhaul flights are return catered as well -
LHR-LUN-LHR and
LHR-DAR-LHR spring to mind.

I just flew DAR-IST on TK's 737-900ER in J and it was clearly return catered from IST - the meal and selection were home-base quality and much better than the LAX-IST catering previously encountered!

I imagine many of their East Africa services are return-catered due to middle of the night short-haul style turn-arounds (4:25 am ex-DAR). There seem to be cart stowages all over the place on these a/c I guess for this very purpose.
 
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dabpit
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:16 pm

DL and US flights into DAB are catered for rountrip flights including flights when the aircrafts stay over night in DAB
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LXA340
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:26 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 29):
I believe when I flew AF from CDG to DLA and back the catering was brought along from Paris for the return trip.

Wonder if this is the case for many Europe-Africa flights?

SWISS had a case some time ago where the crew had a feeling that the catering on an ex NBO flight was not hygienically fresh and no meal service could be provided on that flight except for some pretzels etc, the passengers got compensated though   I am sure these cases occur quite frequently with catering out of these countries and it would make much more sense to take the catering from the homebase in europe. Nevertheless with the continiuous cost efficiency measures I have a feeling that a lot of newly delivered aircraft don't have the capacity for the catering of the return flight

On another note EL AL also caters round trip to various european destinations such as ZRH.
 
panpan
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:09 pm

Thanks so much for posting such an interesting topic!

How do they store perishable and heatable food for the return on long haul flights? I didn't think aircraft had refrigeration at all.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:11 pm

Quoting panpan (Reply 33):
How do they store perishable and heatable food for the return on long haul flights? I didn't think aircraft had refrigeration at all.

I think they are stored in dry ice, however, I could be wrong.
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FWAERJ
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:21 pm

When two-class service returns to FWA (not a matter of if but when - I expect DL and ATL/MSP first with the new 9E pilot contract), if they serve meals in the F cabin, it will have to be return-catered.

The reason is simple: There are no catering facilities at FWA (and probably haven't been any for decades), though Spinach Ball operates in the old Kitty Hawk employee cafeteria and might be able to expand into airline meals. Almost every other airport the size of FWA (20 or so departures per day) is in the same boat of requiring return-catered flights when two-class jets start service.
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AR385
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RE: Return Catering

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:58 pm

I used to fly a lot IAH-MGA-IAH and on the return, MGA-IAH, the F meals were catered by the Camino Real hotel, which is right across the street from the airport. The breakfast was actually excellent, although it seemed exactly like what you would have gotten if you were eating at the bufett at the hotel. CO probably would have double catered the flight, but the morning return to IAH was the same plane that arrived the previous evening and overnighted, so that would have been impossible.

I also recall how AR got 60 passengers ill from cholera and a couple actually died, when they refused to cater at EZE all the way for their EZE-LIM-LAX flight when Peru was in the middle of a cholera epidemic in the late 80s. Every other airline was double catering or catering anywhere else but LIM, but no, AR thought it was ok to cater at LIM...
 
jetstar
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RE: Return Catering

Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:06 am

I was on a Delta LGA-TPA flight on time which returns back to LGA, I asked the FA if they take on any catering in TPA because I never see a catering truck pull up to the airplane and she said no, all the catering is loaded on at LGA for both flights.

She said the Delta does that on a lot of their flights of 3 hours or less because it is cheaper to load both flights from one truck using one driver as opposed to having another truck at the outstation just to cater the return flight.

JetStar
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Return Catering

Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:54 am

Quoting jetstar (Reply 37):
I was on a Delta LGA-TPA flight on time which returns back to LGA, I asked the FA if they take on any catering in TPA because I never see a catering truck pull up to the airplane and she said no, all the catering is loaded on at LGA for both flights.

She said the Delta does that on a lot of their flights of 3 hours or less because it is cheaper to load both flights from one truck using one driver as opposed to having another truck at the outstation just to cater the return flight.

JetStar

Looking at LSG Sky Chefs' website, DL isn't listed as one of their customers at TPA. Gate Gourmet also has ops at TPA, however, they don't list their customers on their website.

As a related question, what airlines does Gate Gourmet at JFK serve? Most of the U.S. carriers are served by LSG Sky Chefs, while several international airlines are served by Flying Food. What about Gate Gourmet? I think they used to have the DL contract until about 2006/2007; DL now uses LSG Sky Chefs.

I wonder why Gate Gourmet doesn't list customers on their website.

[Edited 2013-01-15 20:57:07]
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LHRBFSTrident
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RE: Return Catering

Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:14 am

Quoting panpan (Reply 33):
How do they store perishable and heatable food for the return on long haul flights? I didn't think aircraft had refrigeration at all.

interesting question - on a UA 744 from SFO-HKG the rear Y galley had a row of carts with what appeared to be power supply cables plugged into them.

I assumed at the time that it was to refrigerate the food for the final meal service because of the long stretch of time between preparation and planned consumption...
 
Fabo
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RE: Return Catering

Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:10 pm

Power supply into carts? Never heard of it. Usually dry ice is used for cooling.
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AR385
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RE: Return Catering

Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:05 pm

Quoting Fabo (Reply 40):
Power supply into carts? Never heard of it. Usually dry ice is used for cooling.

Yes it is. The FA on an LH flight, in F, put my insuline over dry ice, to keep it "refrigerated". Can´t blame her, but the insuline was destroyed on a 14 hr flight (FRA-EZE) halfway. I arrived at EZE with a blood sugar level of 250...
 
Fabo
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RE: Return Catering

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:02 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 41):
Can´t blame her, but the insuline was destroyed on a 14 hr flight (FRA-EZE) halfway.

Damn. That is not a nice flight to get your insuline destroyed. She surely meant well, but I would have made sure that the patient, who would know better about handling, would approve of anything I would do to his medicine.
The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
 
Viscount724
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RE: Return Catering

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:54 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 32):
On another note EL AL also caters round trip to various european destinations such as ZRH.

Probably cheaper than paying European caterers for Kosher meals.

[Edited 2013-01-16 16:56:29]
 
AR385
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RE: Return Catering

Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:34 pm

Quoting Fabo (Reply 42):
but I would have made sure that the patient, who would know better about handling, would approve of anything I would do to his medicine.

When I asked her to please put it in cold storage (the ice packs on my cooler had melted) I assumed the 747 had refrigerators. They don´t, they carry packs of dry ice. So she put the vial and wrapped it in packs of dry ice. Of course it froze and was destroyed. Not her fault. But i did not know aircraft don´t have fridges.
 
Fabo
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RE: Return Catering

Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:12 pm

Oh well, that explains it.

Mental note: always explain to pax there is dry ice, but not a fridge onboard....
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PRFlyer
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RE: Return Catering

Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:26 pm

Use a flexpen insulin. It can be carried around in room temperature. No refrigeration needed.
 
AR385
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RE: Return Catering

Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:10 pm

Quoting prflyer (Reply 46):
Use a flexpen insulin. It can be carried around in room temperature. No refrigeration needed.

Now I do. Back then they were not available here.
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Return Catering

Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:52 pm

I remember when there was a catering and cleaning that were on strike in Australia. Cathay Pacific had to bring outbound and inbound meals. Also cabin crew and pilots had to clean the cabin and toilets.
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JAGflyer
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RE: Return Catering

Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:11 am

I don't think short/medium range aircraft (Boeing 757s and smaller) have refrigeration systems (chillers) in the galleys but the larger planes can be fitted with them. I recall seeing a video on Youtube showing an FA preparing a galley and they specifically mentioned chillers on the B767. Chillers are available from B/E Aerospace:

You can see the various types of equipment available for a galley here:
http://www.sell-interiors.net/Products/Product-Detail.aspx
http://www.driessen.com/pub/galleyequipment/equipmentrange/index.html
http://www.beaerospace.com/products/galley_beverage_makers.htm
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