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TWA772LR
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757/767 Door Configuration Questions

Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:51 pm

I have a couple questions regarding the 757 and 767 doors.

757
I have noticed that major legacy airlines, like CO, have 757s with 2 over-wing exits on each side. And other airlines like European charter airlines have just the 1 small door just aft of the wing.

767
It seems that most 763s have a layout similar to the 738 with main doors at the rear and front, and 2 over-wing doors. While others have 2 sets of main doors forward of the wing, a pair of main doors near the tail, and a set of smaller doors just aft of the wing.

What are advantages of these configurations? Disadvantages? What is the driving factor for airlines when choosing these configurations?
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1337Delta764
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RE: 757/767 Door Configuration Questions

Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:01 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
767
It seems that most 763s have a layout similar to the 738 with main doors at the rear and front, and 2 over-wing doors. While others have 2 sets of main doors forward of the wing, a pair of main doors near the tail, and a set of smaller doors just aft of the wing.

There is also a third layout with three pairs of full-size doors (two pairs forward of the wing, and one pair at the rear of the aircraft) and one pair of overwing exits; DL's ex-Gulf Air 763ERs are this way. This seems to be the least common overall layout, though.

[Edited 2013-01-29 11:03:40]
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Stitch
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RE: 757/767 Door Configuration Questions

Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:01 pm

The maximum certified passenger capacity is based on the number of exits and their size.

A 757-200 with four exit doors per side can hold more passengers (239) than one with three exit doors per side and two overwing exits (224).

It is the same with the 767-300ER.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: 757/767 Door Configuration Questions

Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:06 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
A 757-200 with four exit doors per side can hold more passengers (239) than one with three exit doors per side and two overwing exits (224).

Wouldn't that be the other way around since there are more doors on the one with the 3 main doors and 2 over-wing since that has more doors?
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1337Delta764
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RE: 757/767 Door Configuration Questions

Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:23 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 3):
Wouldn't that be the other way around since there are more doors on the one with the 3 main doors and 2 over-wing since that has more doors?

I think overwing exits aren't certified for as many passengers as doors, which is why the 4 door layout may be certified for more passengers (even though the doors immediately aft of the wings are smaller than the others).
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Stitch
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RE: 757/767 Door Configuration Questions

Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:29 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 3):
Wouldn't that be the other way around since there are more doors on the one with the 3 main doors and 2 over-wing since that has more doors?

Those are the FAA Exit Limit figures from the Type Certificate.

FAA FAR Part 25 Sec. 25.807 describes the type of exits and the number of passengers they can support. The Type I passenger doors support about three times as many people as the Type III overwing exists, which is explains why a plane with four sets of Type I doors can support more passengers than a plane with three sets of Type I doors and two sets of Type III window exits.

[Edited 2013-01-29 11:38:47]
 
roseflyer
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RE: 757/767 Door Configuration Questions

Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:45 pm

Historically, the 8 door layout was popular with some airlines. There wasn't as much of a push for high cabin density when the 757 and 767 were initially designed in the 1970s. These were the days of regulation and elaborate meal services. The elaborate meal services required very large economy galleys. The 8 door layouts all had the economy lavatories in the middle of the economy cabin. This kept passengers out of the galleys and made the service easier. It also helped having a break in the middle of the cabin so that it would be easier for FA’s to move about the cabin with meals and beverages and not have to pass people in the aisle.

However, in the 1980s, airlines pushed for getting more seats in the airplane and heavily favor overwing window exits. Overwing exits did not require as much space as a door did in the middle of the economy cabin. These configurations allow for more seats. Meal services became less elaborate and galleys shrank. This allowed space in the back of the airplane for the lavatories. In the 1980s capacity was far more important, so the less efficient 8 door configuration was phased out in favor of squeezing in more seats.

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
757
I have noticed that major legacy airlines, like CO, have 757s with 2 over-wing exits on each side. And other airlines like European charter airlines have just the 1 small door just aft of the wing.

It's important to also take note of who the early 757 operators were. The early operators were Eastern, Delta, Northwest, Republic, British Airways, Monarch, etc. Some of the major 757 operators today were not early 757 operators. American, United, and Continental all waited until the 1990s. Early on the 757 wasn't a particularly good seller and UA and AA had more interest in the 767-200.
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bohica
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RE: 757/767 Door Configuration Questions

Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:35 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 3):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
A 757-200 with four exit doors per side can hold more passengers (239) than one with three exit doors per side and two overwing exits (224).

Wouldn't that be the other way around since there are more doors on the one with the 3 main doors and 2 over-wing since that has more doors?

Let's put it this way: Size matters. (This is a rated G forum. Keep it that way.   )

Airplane doors are tall and wide enough for passengers to jump onto an evacuation slide without having to slow down. Overwing window exits are smaller, slowing the progress. You have to exit leg-body-leg then depending on the aircraft type, either slide down the flaps or jump onto a slide to get off the wing. Doors are much faster to evacuate through than overwing exits.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: 757/767 Door Configuration Questions

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:23 pm

It was strictly up to the ordering company what configuration to purchase. The early 5500 series 757's had the third bottom-hinged door. It was not until later that they ordered the version with 4 overwing exits and they became the 5600 series.. That was a much more passenger and flight attendant friendly version as you could easily get to rest rooms and the galley at 2R without crawling over carts or relaying pots of coffee back and forth.

Oddly, TW last a late customer for the 757 and they ordered it in the 4 door version.

Personally, I dislike using the 757 for trans-Atlantic flying. Early on we had to lock off the lav forward of door 2L and would not open it until later in the flight. The lav tanks were insufficient for the flight lengths. Eventually they wwere refitted with larger waste tanks.
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7BOEING7
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RE: 757/767 Door Configuration Questions

Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:39 am

After April of 1996, 767's with 3 full size doors and the "mini" door/hatch/whatever just aft of the wing and similar had a max capacity of 350 although I'm not sure if anybody ever configured for that. The evacuation test on Britania G-OBYB (which wasn't configured for 350) got 351pass/10crew out in 75 seconds with one of each paired exit inoperative and overhead luggage in the aisles.

[Edited 2013-01-29 19:01:30]
 
Max Q
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RE: 757/767 Door Configuration Questions

Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:12 am

Jeez, 350 pax on a 767..
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