jodoloy
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Private Pilot Oral

Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:08 pm

I just unsated my Private Pilot Oral. The examiners main problem were with airworthiness inspections: Altimeter, Transponder, and Pitot Static inspections. During the debrief I knew the inspection requirements immediately, however I was not clear what he was asking at the time.

When I got home I pulled out my FAR/AIM, and those inspections are only required for IFR flight. So based upon what I read in the FAR’s, I think that those questions were unfair since I am not applying for an instrument rating. Am I correct in my assumption?
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Private Pilot Oral

Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:47 pm

Well you are right and wrong. 91.413 states that you can not use a transponder if it has not been tested within the previous 24 calendar months. That is for both IFR and VFR. When it comes to the Altimeter though 91.411 says it is for IFR flight in controlled airspace. You are correct there by my interpretation. One thing you should always do if you find the unsat questionable is break out your FAR/AIM and prove you are right. A lot of these examiners probably do IFR checks as well and might mix up the regs by accident. They can be intimidating but don't be afraid to push a little bit.
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iFlyLOTs
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RE: Private Pilot Oral

Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:29 pm

I took mine twice and had the same issue, when I gave the almost exact same reason they told me that because where I operate we are in the mode C ring of ORD and because of that we need to know the transponder inspection rule, and the reason for knowing the altimeter and the pitot-static system is that if you're planning on going for your instrument rating you should know it well in advance.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Private Pilot Oral

Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:49 am

Altimeter and airspeed indicator are required for VFR flight, therefore it seems reasonable you can be asked about these. If memory serves, the altimeter only needs to be inspected in case of IFR flight, but the pitot static system needs to be inspected regardless. The altimeter inspection thus doesn't seem like too much of a leap?

The transponder is required in quite a bit of airspace, therefore it seems reasonable you can be asked about it.

It is equipment in your aircraft. Maintenance record review is (typically) part of a checkride. Certainly every examiner I have heard of wants to see the records or at least the latest inspection dates. Therefore, again, it seems reasonable you can be asked about the inspection intervals.

Challenging an examiner is all well and good, but in this case I think it is not crystal clear that the items should not be included.


You said yourself you knew the requirements during the debrief, so you obviously studied them. The fact that you didn't know them during the oral was probably just checkride jitters. Examiners are well aware of the fact that most candidates perform at 20-30% less capacity during a checkride. You don't need to be perfect.


Did you pass?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: Private Pilot Oral

Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:28 am

I don't know if it should really be in The oral but I have been asked about required inspections- AVIATE- on both my check rides and my per solo, and I would expect to be asked about the, for any checkride.

FYI don't piss off an examiner if you especially if you expect to be on another check ride with him or her.
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jodoloy
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RE: Private Pilot Oral

Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:22 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 3):

Unfortunately I did not pass, as I stated in my initial thread.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Private Pilot Oral

Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:37 am

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 4):
FYI don't piss off an examiner if you especially if you expect to be on another check ride with him or her.

Agreed. Most examiners are nice people who want you to pass. Being confrontational is never helpful, and you may well see them again on future checkrides.

Quoting jodoloy (Reply 5):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 3):

Unfortunately I did not pass, as I stated in my initial thread.

Sorry to hear it. However it was not clear from you initial post.

What did your instructor say about the whole thing?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
airxliban
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RE: Private Pilot Oral

Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:40 am

I got my private pilot certificate last month and I was asked about the maintenance inspection requirements too. I used the aviate rule:

Annual inspection on the airframe, engine and prop
VOR: every 30 days for IFR flight
100 hour: airframe, engine and prop (only required for aircraft for hire I believe)
Altimeter & pitot static: every 24 months
Transponder: every 24 months
ELT: every 12 months

Anyway, technically some of the above is IFR only but I would agree with others that you should probably know these regardless. As StarlionBlue said a review of the aircraft maintenance records is part of the oral component and you need to know where to find the different inspection certificates and figure out whether the aircraft is airworthy. It doesn't make sense that you should be completely ignorant on items that are in the records when you're presenting the maintenance log books to the examiner, although failing you just for that is, I suppose, a little harsh.

The good thing about getting a private certificate is that you don't want to pass by barely squeaking by, you want to do well on all components of the exam. I believe that as a formality, you'll need to go back to your flight school and get some more training and then get reendorsed by the instructor so that you can then go back and complete parts of the oral that you didn't pass or have not yet done.

Good luck with everything!
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rwy04lga
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RE: Private Pilot Oral

Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:58 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
However it was not clear from you initial post.

Well, he thought 'unsated' worked. Technically, yes, but using 'FAILED' would've been better, if a little more damaging to the ego. Go ahead, question your examiner....see if he 'unseats' you.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Private Pilot Oral

Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:34 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 8):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
However it was not clear from you initial post.

Well, he thought 'unsated' worked. Technically, yes, but using 'FAILED' would've been better, if a little more damaging to the ego. Go ahead, question your examiner....see if he 'unseats' you.

Ah. Sorry, I didn't get it. "Unsated" means not satisfied but I didn't understand it in context.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
N353SK
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RE: Private Pilot Oral

Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:07 pm

Quoting jodoloy (Thread starter):
Altimeter, Transponder, and Pitot Static inspections. During the debrief I knew the inspection requirements immediately, however I was not clear what he was asking at the time.

Most DPEs would not fail you for simply not knowing those three items on a private pilot oral. It is more likely that there had been several other areas that were marginal and airworthiness inspections were the straw that broke the camel's back.
 
GApilot106
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RE: Private Pilot Oral

Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:28 pm

I passed my Private Pilot Oral two weeks ago; and as someone mentioned in a post above, I used the AV1ATE acronym when asked this question. This is probably what your examiner was looking for. This acronym may cover some IFR requirements (like the VOR inspection) but per the TOMATO FLAMES minimum VFR equipment requirement, most of these inspections are required. The PIC should confirm before every flight that the AV1ATE maintenance inspections have been completed within their alloted schedule. (Remember that "A" in AV1ATE stands for both 'Annual' and 'Airworthiness Directives').

Good luck on your re-test. I recommend focusing on memorizing acronyms (the two mentioned above, plus IMSAFE, FLAPS, VDMONA (compass errors), ANDS, GUMPS, AIIMR (hazordous attitudes) etc.). They helped me tremendously.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Private Pilot Oral

Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:13 am

Quoting GApilot106 (Reply 11):
Good luck on your re-test. I recommend focusing on memorizing acronyms (the two mentioned above, plus IMSAFE, FLAPS, VDMONA (compass errors), ANDS, GUMPS, AIIMR (hazordous attitudes) etc.). They helped me tremendously.

I agree. Know these like the back of your hand.

Also GRABCARD once you get to IFR. But doesn't hurt to know it now.

Quoting N353SK (Reply 10):
Most DPEs would not fail you for simply not knowing those three items on a private pilot oral. It is more likely that there had been several other areas that were marginal and airworthiness inspections were the straw that broke the camel's back.

Agreed.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
fuelfool
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RE: Private Pilot Oral

Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:59 am

You better be ready for the follow up questions, but you can reference the FARs during your oral. You just better know where it is, and what it means. Just an FYI.
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