14ccKemiskt
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The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:28 pm

I don't seem to find anything on this topic on the entire Internet, so I'll try to start it here.

What is the deal with the black cockpit windows of the Airbus A350? All official renderings that has been published, regardless of airline livery, are showing the posts between the cockpit windows painted black - giving the A350 a distinct different look than any other twin engined airplane of its size. And as we've seen from the first plane assembled, the posts are not made of any specific black material that cannot be painted.

Now, i figure that the reason behind this specific design detail is to distinguish the model from all similar looking planes out there but some questions do arise. Mainly, will the airlines have any say in this? If Airbus refuses to deliver any A350 without the "sunglasses", could the operator re-paint the posts between the windows if they like? Or will they have to sign an agreement with Airbus where they promise not to remove the model "distinguisher"?

Flying a A350 will probably be something that the airlines wants to highlight, which gives them few reasons to remove the black cockpit, at least in the early years. But what will happen later on? And, on the other hand: What prohibits any airline from painting the window posts black on any other airplane model, say a A330, to mimic the A350 and thereby pretending to have a cooler plane than they actually do?

Someone here who has insight (or opinions) in this minor, but nevertheless interesting, topic?
 
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Aesma
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:50 pm

The A350 XWB had only 4 windows at first, with two huge ones wrapping around the cockpit, that made it look different. Later a more usual design came about (in part because customers were worried changing a window would be very expensive) so they used this trick to keep the look.
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scbriml
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:52 pm

The windows aren't really black - look at photos of the real plane rather than computer renditions.
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14ccKemiskt
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:56 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):
The windows aren't really black - look at photos of the real plane rather than computer renditions

No, of course the windows themselves are normal. I'm referring to the space between the windows.

http://www.a350xwb.com/fileadmin/templates/a350xwb/assets/img/a350xwb-3d.png
 
sawtooth
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:09 pm

It's about the only thing differentiating the 350 visually, hides a rather ugly nose (also nothing like the renderings) and gives the plane some character. Probably just a marketing device but hope they stick with it for the house livery at least.
 
TriniA340
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:34 pm

It seems every single Airbus rendering & display model of the A350 (house, as well as customers' liveries) show the black cockpit window framing. Maybe it's what they're going with for the flight test/display aircraft. I think it adds some beauty to it and reduces the 'bespectacled' look of the plane. Hopefully, all A350s will be painted so!  
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3rdGen
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:23 pm

Maybe it has something to do with reflections? If you take a look at a lot of older planes from the 60s and 70s you'll notice black anti-reflective paint being used on the section just below the cockpit windows.



Or maybe they took their inspiration from him:
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David L
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:41 pm

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 6):
Maybe it has something to do with reflections? If you take a look at a lot of older planes from the 60s and 70s you'll notice black anti-reflective paint being used on the section just below the cockpit windows.

I wouldn't have thought so. Essentially the same 737 nose has been flying around without the anti-glare panel for a few decades now. It probably seemed like a good idea at the time, became fashionable and was eventually dropped. I don't see how the external surfaces of the pillars could reflect sunlight into the pilots' eyes.

I'm more inclined to believe it's rendered that way at the moment just to look good. Sometimes these things look good from a distance but lose their appeal close up, e.g. at the gate.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:13 am

Quoting David L (Reply 7):

I wouldn't have thought so. Essentially the same 737 nose has been flying around without the anti-glare panel for a few decades now.

No, that's still there. They just found a way to make the native livery colors anti-glare, so it isn't very obvious.

I think the 350 needs to keep the burgler glasses. I like that look for it (though personally I think it's a very good looking airplane any way they dress it up!).
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David L
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:21 am

Quoting Darksnowynight (Reply 8):
No, that's still there

OK... essentially the same nose has been flying around without the black anti-glare panel for decades now. In any case, I'm still having difficulty seeing how glare from the outside of the pillars could find its way into the pilots eyes.
 
14ccKemiskt
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:41 pm

Quoting Darksnowynight (Reply 8):

Well, yes. The A350 is after all a very plain looking airplane. The 787 at least has some details like the chevrons. The A350 has nothing. But the black cockpit actually makes it look rather cool.
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:11 am

It occurred to me that it may be due to what the frames are made of, rather than just a styling detail. In times past the window frames were usually left unpainted aluminium, as shown in the Western Airlines 737 photo. Now they tend to be painted the same as the fuselage. Maybe Airbus wanted to leave them as unpainted composite, i.e. black?

When I saw the thread title I thought of the "Heart of Gold" spaceship in the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. That had a very black cockpit finish, at least in the book IIRC. Maybe the A350 has an infinite improbability drive too?  
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yeelep
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:09 pm

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 11):
Maybe Airbus wanted to leave them as unpainted composite, i.e. black?

Isn't the nose section of the A-350 aluminum?
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:18 pm

Quoting yeelep (Reply 12):
Isn't the nose section of the A-350 aluminum?

You're right, I should have checked before speculating. With so much composite in the structure, and with carbon fibre being black, I put 2 and 2 together and made 5. It was meant as suggested possible reason why, not a statement of a fact, but looking back it read like one.

On a separate issue, and being very pedantic, the designation is A350, not A-350.
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ORDfan
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:20 pm

A few months since this has been posted, and it doesn't appear to be answered. I have been thinking recently as well: are the black window frames going to be a "permanent" feature of all future A350s, or will they be painted over in their respective carriers' liveries, accordingly?

I actually think the A350 nose is quite nice, but the black paint around the cockpit doesn't really do it any favors.
 
celestar
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:38 pm

Hi Guys, as a plane lover, do you not think the A350 nose and head gives the same look like the German night interceptor HE 219 Owl? Maybe I gave too much beer today!
Anyway, I do like the A350 instead of the 787 for its squat looking short landing gear look.
 
Vimanav
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:03 pm

Quoting celestar (Reply 15):
Hi Guys, as a plane lover, do you not think the A350 nose and head gives the same look like the German night interceptor HE 219 Owl? Maybe I gave too much beer today!

No. But a big yes on the beer   

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Max Q
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:57 am

For some reason I think this looks great.


The Prototype L1011 had the same black window frames and it looked outstanding, I think some operators may have kept them that way as well.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
musang
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:11 pm

Black cockpit surrounds enhanced most Dornier 228s as well, whose 1960s Do-28 cockpit windows didn't quite fit with the stylish redesign of the rest of the airframe.

Regards - musang
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:38 pm

Quoting ORDfan (Reply 14):
A few months since this has been posted, and it doesn't appear to be answered. I have been thinking recently as well: are the black window frames going to be a "permanent" feature of all future A350s, or will they be painted over in their respective carriers' liveries, accordingly?

As far as I know, it's a cosmetic feature only. So it's up to each customer to decide.
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boeing764
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:13 am

That black window outline is on the Qatar Airways A350s.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...-airways-airbus-a350-xwb/14727949/
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TWA772LR
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:00 am

Am I the only one that thinks the A350 looks like a racoon?
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chimborazo
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:16 am

Looks like the space shuttle.
 
travelavnut
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:18 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 21):

Am I the only one that thinks the A350 looks like a racoon?

As the un-official nickname of the A350 on this forum is "The Racoon" I do not think so  
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strfyr51
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:30 am

It's to reduce glare, you might also notice the black is a matte finish?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:20 pm

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 23):

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 21):

Am I the only one that thinks the A350 looks like a racoon?

As the un-official nickname of the A350 on this forum is "The Racoon" I do not think s

Let's hope this becomes "Rocket Raccoon".

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AirPacific747
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:01 am

I thought (and hoped) they would have made it look like this:



With some hi-tech window technology that made them darker a-la 787 passenger windows.

Instead they come up with a much more bland design and regular windows just painted black around the edges.

Yawn.
 
Pihero
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:13 am

I thought this place is Tech-ops, not *Polls and Prefs*.
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Jetlagged
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:58 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 26):
With some hi-tech window technology that made them darker a-la 787 passenger windows.

Flightdeck windows are designed to be seen through clearly at all times, including at night. They also have to be heated. Why do you think Boeing didn't use that technology on the 787 flightdeck windows.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 26):
Yawn.

Aircraft aren't primarily designed to be above your boredom threshold.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 27):
I thought this place is Tech-ops, not *Polls and Prefs*.

Indeed.
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AirPacific747
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:02 am

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 28):
Flightdeck windows are designed to be seen through clearly at all times, including at night. They also have to be heated. Why do you think Boeing didn't use that technology on the 787 flightdeck windows.

I don't know if you've ever flown an airliner, but there are sunscreens to protect from the sunlight at 95% of the time, you could fly without any windows at all, so I don't understand your reasoning for not trying to implement it for the cockpit windows in the future?

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 28):
Aircraft aren't primarily designed to be above your boredom threshold.

Luckily my opinion isn't primarily designed to automatically like everything that I see, which allows me to think and have my own opinions.

I hope for you that you are able to think independently too.

And by the way, why the rudeness? Is the A350 your aircraft? Do you get personally offended when someone criticises an aircraft, or maybe because you have a low self esteem?

[Edited 2014-09-05 17:21:55]
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:13 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 29):
I don't know if you've ever flown an airliner, but there are sunscreens to protect from the sunlight at 95% of the time, you could fly without any windows at all, so I don't understand your reasoning for not trying to implement it for the cockpit windows in the future?

What is better technology than a window you can see through reliably? Better certainly than one that dims and then can't be undimmed due to a malfunction. You criticised Airbus for not using 787 style pax window technology for the A350 flightdeck, but Boeing didn't use it either. Why do you think they didn't do so?

You could certainly have an aircraft without flightdeck windows. Several were drawn conceptually in the 1950s. Concorde was initially intended to only have side windows during supersonic flight. Strangely enough none of these windowless concepts made it to production because pilots like to have direct vision of the outside world.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 29):
Luckily my opinion isn't primarily designed to automatically like everything that I see, which allows me to think and have my own opinions.

It's a shame you can't express those opinions in a more mature way than "yawn".

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 29):
And by the way, why the rudeness? Is the A350 your aircraft? Do you get personally offended when someone criticises an aircraft, or maybe because you have a low self esteem?

You're the one being rude and patronising. This is Tech Ops, not CivAv. Your comments suggesting I have low self esteem, lack of being able to think independently and questioning my knowledge of airliner flightdecks aren't at all insulting are they? They certainly weren't called for.

[Edited 2014-09-06 08:15:51]
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AirPacific747
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:13 pm

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 30):
What is better technology than a window you can see through reliably? Better certainly than one that dims and then can't be undimmed due to a malfunction. You criticised Airbus for not using 787 style pax window technology for the A350 flightdeck, but Boeing didn't use it either. Why do you think they didn't do so?

Why do you assume such a technology could not become reliable?

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 30):
It's a shame you can't express those opinions in a more mature way than "yawn".

I can, I chose not to. Why can't you just stick to the topic instead?

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 30):
You're the one being rude and patronising. This is Tech Ops, not CivAv. Your comments suggesting I have low self esteem, lack of being able to think independently and questioning my knowledge of airliner flightdecks aren't at all insulting are they? They certainly weren't called for.

Yes, I was being rude in the previous post because you were being rude in the post before that  
 
Max Q
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:06 am

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 28):
Flightdeck windows are designed to be seen through clearly at all times, including at night. They also have to be heated. Why do you think Boeing didn't use that technology on the 787 flightdeck windows.

Its the frames that are dark, not the windows.



The black frames make the windows look much darker, although they may be tinted slightly the surrounding color magnifies the look significantly.
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Jetlagged
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:45 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 32):
Its the frames that are dark, not the windows.

I know, I was respnding to AirPacific747's comment about the glass.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:51 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 31):
Yes, I was being rude in the previous post because you were being rude in the post before that

Nothing I wrote was remotely as rude or personal as your admittedly deliberately insults.

All I said was:

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 28):
Aircraft aren't primarily designed to be above your boredom threshold.

Sarcastic maybe but hardly rude.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
Btriple7
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:28 pm

Apologies for reviving an older thread, but I haven't been able to find a satisfactory answer to the question of the A350's "racoon eyes". Google is no help, and A.net's search feature is woefully limited.


So my questions are:
(1) Are the black outlines around the A350's cockpit windows a required feature?
(2) What purpose do they serve beyond aesthetics?


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a380900
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:44 pm

I concur! I'd love to know the answers from someone in the know.
But at least it looks like the first production models do have the black "eyeliner".
 
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zeke
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:57 am

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 35):

No not required.
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cosyr
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:30 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 37):

No not required.

Then why does every rendering have them? Qatar has them on the A350 and none of their other planes. There are similarities between the shape of the A350 windscreen and the A380, but the A380 doesn't have the racoon eyeliner.

I really hope other airlines stop it, because it is going to stand out horribly on white liveries like UA.
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:34 am

Quoting cosyr (Reply 38):
I really hope other airlines stop it, because it is going to stand out horribly on white liveries like UA.

I think standing out is the idea. It makes an A350 instantly recognisable from a 787. Whether it's horrible is a matter of taste. I'm sure if an airline wanted to paint the windscreen surround another colour Airbus wouldn't say no and lose the sale.


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Max Q
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:44 am

Looks great, get over it.
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Starlionblue
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:09 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 40):
Looks great, get over it.

Quite. 
Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 39):
I'm sure if an airline wanted to paint the windscreen surround another colour Airbus wouldn't say no and lose the sale.

I'll take mine in day-glo pink please! Just to annoy the a.nut livery zealots.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
Btriple7
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RE: The Black Cockpit Windows Of The A350

Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:09 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 37):
No not required.

Is this confirmed? Do we know of any airlines forgoing this feature?

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 39):

Seeing both aircraft side-by-side like that, I can now understand why Airbus wanted to spice things up a little. They really are quite similar to the untrained eye.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 40):
Looks great, get over it.

To each his own...  
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