acws777
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Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:13 pm

This has been bugging me for a while. I was at yvr and a gentlemen was denied boarding for been late but the flight sat at the gate for another 30mins (reason unknown). The gate agent mentioned that the door was already closed and there's nothing she can do.

So why can't they open the door after a flight is closed?
 
twal1011727
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RE: Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:20 pm

There is a system on airplanes called ACARS(google : ACARS.)
When the doors are closed and other parameters are met,
the flight will show an "out" time. The door can be re-opened but this will reset the time out and
show a delay that is reported to the home airlines Gov't(US-DOT)

Ticket price, time of day and delays are some of the things passengers look for when booking flights.

KD
 
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longhauler
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RE: Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:09 pm

Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 1):
The door can be re-opened but this will reset the time out and
show a delay that is reported to the home airlines Gov't(US-DOT)

It is the parking brake release that sets the "out" time, but that can be changed very easily, and often is. In the example above, the "out" time would be 30 minutes after the door closed, as that is when the parking brake is released.

The main reason why a passenger can not be boarded after the door is closed, is that the door closure sets a lot of things in motion. And ... once those things start, often it is very hard to stop them. And, in some cases, if the flight is "finalised" then they can not be stopped, or changed.

If it is known that the flight would sit for 30 minutes, then yes the passenger can be accommodated, but that is a hard thing to predict, and on some routes/aircraft can cause some legal issues with regard to passenger counts.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
acws777
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RE: Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:35 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2):
Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 1):

Oh ok, so many things are connected. Thanks for the response
 
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asqx
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RE: Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:43 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2):
It is the parking brake release that sets the "out" time, but that can be changed very easily, and often is. In the example above, the "out" time would be 30 minutes after the door closed, as that is when the parking brake is released.

The event that triggers an out time is changeable and in some cases a plane can be shown as OUT even though the brakes are set. It all depends on what the customer (the airline) gets ACARS programed to recognize as the OUT time. Because of different ACARS software, it's even possible for two different planes of the same type having two different sets of paramaters for determining the OUT time. For example, take an airline with 757s that, because of a merger, have two different sets of parameters. For one 757, all it takes to show out is the passenger doors closed and the the beacon to be on even though the parking brake is set and the ramp is still loading bags. Yet for the 757 loading at the next gate over, all doors must be closed and brakes released to show out, even if for whatever reason the beacon is still off.

Hell, on planes with manual imput for times I have even gotten pilots to show me out when the door is still open just to avoid taking a delay! Happens mostly with regionals though.
 
bohica
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RE: Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:04 am

Quoting acws777 (Thread starter):
I was at yvr and a gentlemen was denied boarding for been late but the flight sat at the gate for another 30mins (reason unknown).

It might have been sitting on an ATC hold which could be lifted at any moment. If that was the case and the door was opened, the flight would have to cancel the pushback clearance and possibly wait out another ATC hold. If you're on an ATC hold and they tell you to go, you go.
 
LimaFoxTango
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RE: Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:32 am

Quoting acws777 (Reply 3):

Even before the aircraft door is physically closed, another thing to consider is that the flight would have been closed in the reservation system. Gate agents normally do not have the ability to reopen the flight to then "board" the passenger.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
onetogo
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RE: Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:03 am

I've had the door opened for me on a flight that was closed with the jetbridge pulled


yeah, I'm cool.
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:33 pm

I think it was just B.S.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:52 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2):
It is the parking brake release that sets the "out" time, but that can be changed very easily, and often is. In the example above, the "out" time would be 30 minutes after the door closed, as that is when the parking brake is released.

As others say, it all depends.
My airline now uses the parameter of *all doors closed* (including Cargo) as an internal measure. All ground staff are measured on getting the doors closed 3 mins before STD. If the aircraft is then delayed by ATC or Crew checks they are not concerned. Bonuses depend on this.
Also, about 5 years ago we stopped accepting late passengers. Check in closes on time and the gate closes on time. The principle is that if 180 pax are sitting on board on time, why should the flight be delayed for the two late arrivals?
When the gate closes at STD-10, the loaders start offloading bags of no-shows, and they stay off!
For a 30 min gate hold. the doors would never be opened.
 
shamrock137
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RE: Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:52 am

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 8):
I think it was just B.S.

No, most likely not. If you read the other posts in the thread, there are many reasons that airlines are unable to re attach the jetbridge and open the aircraft door. Another example is safety. Endless studies have shown that when a routine is interrupted, safety is compromised. In this case, most likely the doors have been armed, ramp personnel may have moved equipment in the path of the jetbridge, at most airlines the ramp is required to give an all clear signal to the gate agent before moving the jetbridge, meaning you have to pull that person off other tasks, such as a final walk around, or connecting a towbar. All these actions interrupt a per determined flow, and add a possibility for a mistake to be made, and potentially a dangerous situation to occur.
Time to spare? Go by air!
 
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neutrino
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RE: Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:28 pm

Quoting Shamrock137 (Reply 10):
Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 8):
I think it was just B.S.

No, most likely not.

Maybe its just me but my reading is that he is referring to the immediate preceding post:

Quoting Reply 7):
I've had the door opened for me on a flight that was closed with the jetbridge pulled


yeah, I'm cool.

Though in onetogo's defence, that might be likely. I have seen stranger happenings.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:30 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2):
It is the parking brake release that sets the "out" time, but that can be changed very easily, and often is. In the example above, the "out" time would be 30 minutes after the door closed, as that is when the parking brake is released.

In most cases when the door is closed, it's not just the out time that needs to be changed, but the final paperwork would be needed to be changed. This includes weights, passenger names and counts. In hub stations the decision to open the door generally lies with the zone controller and the crew. In smaller stations it still lies with the crew. There are cases where the door will be reopened, all cases are not equal either. They are generally weighed on an individual basis based on the current circumstances.

There have been times where we have even brought a flight back to the gate for things like a misconnected UM or reaccom a large group that would otherwise have no other way of getting to their destination. There is no standard other than the door is closed means the flight has departed as far as the gate is concerned.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
Geezer
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RE: Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:34 am

A very interesting thread, this; ( it's a pity all pax will rarely get to read it  what I take from this is.......if you're "taking a plane", and the airline says the flight boards at 7:15, you need to BE there no later than 7:00 !
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
 
atxpatriot811
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RE: Open A Cabin Door After It Closes?

Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:12 pm

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 6):
Even before the aircraft door is physically closed, another thing to consider is that the flight would have been closed in the reservation system. Gate agents normally do not have the ability to reopen the flight to then "board" the passenger.

A quick call to a buddy that works in the airline's operations center will solve a lot of problems 

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