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TS-IOR
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Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:58 pm

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151387139638733&set=a.351133218732.155259.26027368732&type=1&theater

Regarding this photo, how come the runway remains in use with that B737 stuck at the end ?! Even if it is a single runway terrain...
 
Pihero
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:51 pm

Please provide details on the flight / location... etc...
Difficult to make any conclusion with a telephoto lens shot.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:14 pm

Quoting TS-IOR (Thread starter):
Regarding this photo, how come the runway remains in use with that B737 stuck at the end ?! Even if it is a single runway terrain...

That 737 is quite a long ways off the runway - probably outside the clear zone and probably meeting obstacle clearance requirements.
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boacvc10
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:11 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 1):

Please provide details on the flight / location... etc...
Difficult to make any conclusion with a telephoto lens shot.

Looks like an Indian airfield. Hindi script on the fuel truck back end. "Indian Oil".

I think I have located the airline: Sahara Airlines. At least that is certain. Details ?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Propfreak



[Edited 2013-04-03 15:24:21]

[Edited 2013-04-03 15:24:45]
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vikkyvik
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:17 pm

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 3):
Looks like an Indian airfield. Hindi script on the fuel truck back end. "Indian Oil".

In the comments below the image, people say VABB (Bombay / Mumbai). Looked on Google Maps, and it doesn't quite match up, but I don't know if the Google imagery matches up with whenever this overrun happened.
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boacvc10
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:29 pm

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 3):
I think I have located the airline: Sahara Airlines. At least that is certain. Details ?

Well, I think it is related to: After accident report on this aircraft

Synopsis found?

Quote:

9 Oct 2005; VT-SID, 737-400, 24705/1971, FF 10 Dec 90, Air Sahara; Mumbai, India:

The aircraft sustained substantial damage after it overran runway 27 at Mumbai landing in poor weather. The gear collapsed and the aircraft became stuck in mud from which it took 2 days to move. No fatalities.


[Edited 2013-04-03 15:35:57]

Aircraft history

Was I able to locate it correctly?

BOACVC10


[Edited 2013-04-03 15:38:58]

[Edited 2013-04-03 15:39:27]
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Pihero
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:38 pm

Foud it : Sahara Airlines B-737-4Q8, runway overrun Mumbai international VABB.
The aircraft was stopped 60 ft after the runwat end.
Normally, with an obstacle that close to the runway, it is closed - it was, for two dfays. It took another two days to remove the airplane which was stuck in deep mud.
BUT : the airport authorities can design a curved trajectory for the takeoff, of no more than 15°. The result is a shortening of the runway by some 1100 m as there is also the requirement that the obstacle should be cleared laterally by 300 m (my memory could play some tricks a sthat sort of performance isold ).
The picture shows clearly that the departing A340 has initiated the turn to the left- it's not drift as the landing a/c has a right xwind.
I remember our OPS to Mumbai were interrupted for a few days in 2005.
Of course, the airlines have to show another performance set of charts with that particuliarity...
As an added comment, that 737 nearly hit the brown matter as right behind you have the famous BOM *crappers'corner*   
Av safety Net report here
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vikkyvik
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:54 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 6):
The aircraft was stopped 60 ft after the runwat end.

Wow, I thought that looked WAY farther than 60 feet from the runway! But looking at it again, I suppose it could be that close!
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davidho1985
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:21 pm

Many years ago when a CI brand-new 744 overrun the runway in Hong Kong (Kai Tak),
the 747 was sitting on the seabed at the end of the runway.

The government destoied the horizontal stabilizer to meet the clearance requirement.
Then the runway was re-opened while they were trying to remove the aircaft from the seabed.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:06 pm

Quoting davidho1985 (Reply 8):

As shown:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gil Yu
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Ma

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Starlionblue
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:20 am

Quoting davidho1985 (Reply 8):

Many years ago when a CI brand-new 744 overrun the runway in Hong Kong (Kai Tak),
the 747 was sitting on the seabed at the end of the runway.

The government destoied the horizontal stabilizer to meet the clearance requirement.
Then the runway was re-opened while they were trying to remove the aircaft from the seabed.

I'm sure they would have dynamited the whole thing if it had been an obstacle to swift re-opening. Hong Kong at that time had one runway for airliners only, and was surrounded by a country which, if not hostile, was certainly not an ally. Nowadays at least there are two runways, and border controls to the Mainland and Macau are much relaxed so Macau and Shenzhen could take some of the load.

[Edited 2013-04-04 17:56:32]

[Edited 2013-04-04 17:56:49]
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davidho1985
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:27 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 10):
Nowadays at least there are two runways, and border controls to the Mainland and Macau are much relaxed so Macau and Shenzhen could take some of the load.

Technically HK, Macau and Shenzhen are 3 independent border systems.
When flights are divert to another airport, eg. Shenzhen,
passangers are not allowed to deplane due to the immgration issue.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:45 am

Quoting davidho1985 (Reply 11):
Technically HK, Macau and Shenzhen are 3 independent border systems.
When flights are divert to another airport, eg. Shenzhen,
passangers are not allowed to deplane due to the immgration issue.

Yes I know that. I have crossed the pertinent borders several times. However I think that compared to 1993, it would be politically much easier to put in place a temporary transit arrangement for passengers traveling to and from HK but landing in Shenzhen or Macau if HKG were closed for a few weeks. Perhaps keeping the pax isolated and using buses/ferries. In 1993 the situation was quite different since neither HK nor Macau were part of China. Then again I suppose Macau-HK was never a big deal.
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davidho1985
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:05 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12):
Yes I know that. I have crossed the pertinent borders several times. However I think that compared to 1993, it would be politically much easier to put in place a temporary transit arrangement for passengers traveling to and from HK but landing in Shenzhen or Macau if HKG were closed for a few weeks. Perhaps keeping the pax isolated and using buses/ferries. In 1993 the situation was quite different since neither HK nor Macau were part of China. Then again I suppose Macau-HK was never a big deal.

Few days ago, a CX flight was diverted to Guangzhou due to poor weather in Hong Kong.
Passangers were not allowed to depalne (they have requested to be transferred to the terminal- International airside but have been rejected). They end up spend 23 hours onboard and went back to Hong Kong next morning.

For Macau-HK case, I think it is possible as Macau does not request visa for visitor from many countries.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:28 am

Quoting davidho1985 (Reply 13):
Few days ago, a CX flight was diverted to Guangzhou due to poor weather in Hong Kong.
Passangers were not allowed to depalne (they have requested to be transferred to the terminal- International airside but have been rejected). They end up spend 23 hours onboard and went back to Hong Kong next morning.

Yes I know this issues as well. This and ATC bureaucracy are big reason HK bound pilots dislike diverting to Mainland airports unless they've actually filed a Mainland airport as an alternate.

Again, I was assuming a temporary arrangement if HKG had to close for days or weeks, not a single incident with a single aircraft. Assume a bunch of stray North Korean missiles took out both runways and repairs would take 3 weeks. Do you really not think that some kind of arrangement could be made? I was also saying that this would presumably be easier now than back in 1993. Bottom line, with two runways and actually being part of the same country (sort of), HK theoretically has better options now than in 1993 if a runway was blocked. Which brings us whole circle to my original point that in 1993 the HK Government would presumably have happily dynamited the entire wreckage if the airport hand't been able to reopen very quickly as it did.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:07 am

Air Sahara (S2) 737 Overshoots BOM Runway (by Nimish Oct 9 2005 in Civil Aviation)

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9VSIO
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RE: Runway In Use While Aircraft Stuck In?!

Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:07 pm

Quoting davidho1985 (Reply 8):
The government destoied the horizontal stabilizer to meet the clearance requirement.

Is that not the vertical stabliser?
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