airbuster
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737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:05 pm

Just saw a nice video of the 737 prototype and noticed that on the overhead panel the various switches move UP for ON and DOWN for OFF. All 737's and Boeings I know have the exact opposite where DOWN is ON and UP is OFF.

How come and when did Boeing change this?

Link to the vid:

http://youtu.be/-DdoWJJL9Xw
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fr8mech
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:09 pm

As I recall, it's not up to Boeing, but up to the particular operator.

I worked for a carrier with a mixed fleet of B747 Classics and the cockpit of the ex-TWA aircraft had all the swtiches on the overhead configured opposite from the other aircraft. I want to say that the ex-TWA aircraft were up/aft/on and down/fwd/off.
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jetstar
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:11 pm

I believe that AA had the same problem with the 757’s they inherited from TWA, a lot of the switches were opposite of the AA 757’s. But if I remember it was the AA airplanes that were different from the normal production 757’s.

All the TWA 757’s were leased airplanes, so AA was not allowed to alter them to their standard setup, so it was this and some other differences that prevented AA from using their pilots on the ex TWA airplanes until their pilots went through differences training. A lot of these TWA 757’s are now with Delta and I am sure they are set up in the same configuration as the rest of DL’s 757 fleet.

I think the ex TWA MD-80 had the same problem as well, but I am not 100 percent sure.

JetStar
 
BravoOne
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:04 pm

Here is the true story of how this came about. TWA treated the overhead panels as if they were vertical panels like the FE panel thus up or back was ON. TWA did a fair amount of operational consulting for Lufthansa when the reamerged from WWll in the Constellations and thus Luftansa also had the up or back is on feature Can't recall the particular TWA VP Flight Ops that was responsible for this, but obviously they, (TWA) followed his lead.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:32 pm

Quoting BravoOne (Reply 3):
Here is the true story of how this came about. TWA treated the overhead panels as if they were vertical panels like the FE panel thus up or back was ON. TWA did a fair amount of operational consulting for Lufthansa when the reamerged from WWll in the Constellations and thus Luftansa also had the up or back is on feature Can't recall the particular TWA VP Flight Ops that was responsible for this, but obviously they, (TWA) followed his lead.

In the early 80's and prior almost all Boeing airplanes manufactured for European airlines (and those that followed their certification) were "up is on", including TWA (Two Worlds Apart). As time went on fewer and fewer were built that way but some customers still required it. If I remember correctly Thai had "up is on" on their 777's which isn't such a big deal because most of the switches are buttons in newer airplanes. In an old 727/737 it was always interesting going from one to another from one day to the next.

Similarly the overhead panels were colored differently for Australian Airlines and Trans Australia on their 737-200's. Fuel, electric, hydraulic and air conditioning are normally a lighter color but on the Aussie birds they were different--can't remember exactly how though--any old Aussie pilots out there?
 
Max Q
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:35 am

The Saab 340 had the same switch 'logic'


Up was on, made no sense in that Aircraft either.


If anything desperately needed to be standardized it was this !
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jetstar
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:28 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 5):
The Saab 340 had the same switch 'logic'
Up was on, made no sense in that Aircraft either.
If anything desperately needed to be standardized it was this !

I think the logic behind up is on is that at least in the US, home wall electric switches are the same way, up to turn the light on.

On the Lockheed JetStar, of a few toggles switches we had, up was on, almost all the other switches were rocker type and they too were up is on.

Going back to my aircraft maintenance days I don’t remember working on an airplane that up was off on a toggle or rocker switch and as an inspector I did engine runs on many different single and twin engine piston airplanes.

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airbuster
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:45 pm

Thanks for the replies guys! Fokker also has the up is on. I just transitioned from the Fokker to a "down is on" 737 and funny enough didn't have any trouble with the change.

Does Boeing still have the up is on option on the current in production models?
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7BOEING7
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:14 pm

Quoting airbuster (Reply 7):
Does Boeing still have the up is on option on the current in production models?

If there are any holdouts it would be Thai (777) and DLH (748).
 
SAAFNAV
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:26 pm

The way I've heard is that in prop aircraft, down is on, and in the faster jets, up is on. The logic is that in the slow props, a bird that flies in from the back doesn't switch off all the important stuff!

Obviously tongue in the cheek, but you can baffle people with it no end.

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HAWK21M
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:33 am

I remember the LH classics had the switches of the Hydraulics inverted.....The reason was stated in case of erronously fallen on it would switch off & not on......but not sure if that was the official reason.
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IFixPlanes
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:29 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
... LH classics had the switches of the Hydraulics inverted...

All switches, not only hydraulic.
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DashTrash
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:35 pm

Quoting SAAFNAV (Reply 9):
The way I've heard is that in prop aircraft, down is on, and in the faster jets, up is on. The logic is that in the slow props, a bird that flies in from the back doesn't switch off all the important stuff!

Funny.

The Dash 8 goes with the Boeing philosophy. "ON" is toward the windscreen.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:11 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 12):
Funny.

The Dash 8 goes with the Boeing philosophy. "ON" is toward the windscreen.

I wouldn't call it the "Boeing philosophy" as they will build whatever the customer wants--it's more US or North American vs European. For commercial airplanes Lockheed and Douglas built one or the other as the customer required also.
 
freeze3192
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:18 am

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 12):
Funny.

The Dash 8 goes with the Boeing philosophy. "ON" is toward the windscreen.

That's what they teach us too, at that other Dash operator. Word for word.
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7BOEING7
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:17 am

Quoting freeze3192 (Reply 14):
Funny.

The Dash 8 goes with the Boeing philosophy. "ON" is toward the windscreen.
That's what they teach us too, at that other Dash operator. Word for word.

"Urban legend", but I guess you have to blame somebody.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:33 am

Quoting IFixPlanes (Reply 11):
All switches, not only hydraulic.

Pls elaborate on the rest.... I've noticed the Grd Interconnect in the up-down direction unlike the others in the Left-Right direction though.
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doug_or
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:18 pm

Quoting SAAFNAV (Reply 9):
The way I've heard is that in prop aircraft, down is on, and in the faster jets, up is on. The logic is that in the slow props, a bird that flies in from the back doesn't switch off all the important stuff!
Quoting Max Q (Reply 5):
The Saab 340 had the same switch 'logic'


Up was on, made no sense in that Aircraft either.

Up is on for EMB-120 as well.
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IFixPlanes
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:30 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Pls elaborate on the rest.... I've noticed the Grd Interconnect in the up-down direction unlike the others in the Left-Right direction though.

You wrote "LH classics". LH B737 classic does not have a "Grd Interconnect" SW.
You meant "Original series"?
Other switches are fuel pumps, flt contro (capped), batt SW... and so on.
Just compare:
Lufthansa 737 - http://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufthansa/Boeing-737-530/0625486/L
Other - http://www.airliners.net/photo/Jet2/Boeing-737-377/2241419/L
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HAWK21M
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:14 pm

On the Grd Interconnect switch.....
I meant the LH B737-200 Adv to be precise.....Since on the JT8D powered B737s the EDP was from System A while System B has EMDPs and a seperate Standby System had one EMDP on demand when needed only.
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doug_or
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:40 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):
I meant the LH B737-200 Adv to be precise.

I believe 737 classic generally refers to the -3/4/500 series aircraft. The -200 is just called the -200, or sometimes half in jest, the Jurassic.
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7BOEING7
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:05 pm

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 20):
I believe 737 classic generally refers to the -3/4/500 series aircraft. The -200 is just called the -200, or sometimes half in jest, the Jurassic.

The original use of "classic" was for the -100/200/200ADV when the -3/4/500 came out, which was called the "New Gen". Because the -03/4/500 was the 'New Gen" that forced the -6/7/8/900 to be called the "Next Gen". If there had not been a "New Gen" there would be no "Next Gen".
 
cornutt
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:04 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 21):
The original use of "classic" was for the -100/200/200ADV when the -3/4/500 came out, which was called the "New Gen". Because the -03/4/500 was the 'New Gen" that forced the -6/7/8/900 to be called the "Next Gen". If there had not been a "New Gen" there would be no "Next Gen".

I remember when Boeing first announced that bit about the -300 et al being renamed "Classic". A co-worker commented: "What does that make the -200? Prehistoric?"
 
packsonflight
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:53 am

I flew 737-200 which had aft-on config, but the funny part is that the landing lights where fwd-on!

Now I think that Boeing has more or less stopped running after every operators excentric wishes, keeping the aircrafts more "standard"
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: 737-100 Switches (up Is ON)

Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:30 am

Quoting packsonflight (Reply 23):
Now I think that Boeing has more or less stopped running after every operators excentric wishes, keeping the aircrafts more "standard"

In this aspect and many others. While of course it is nice to offer each operator the galleys wherever they wanted, it is much cheaper to give them only a few options.
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