seb146
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Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 12:38 am

Funny how the "Taxiing from the gate" thread is up. I was just thinking the other day that not many airports have a need for equipment with self-contained air stairs. They were mainly on the DC-9/MD-80s, Caravelle, 727, and 737-200s. Besides the RJs and turboprops, are there any self-contained air stairs on any jets anymore?
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yellowtail
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 12:40 am

Doesn't Ryanair have them on its planes?
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 12:43 am

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 1):
Doesn't Ryanair have them on its planes?

And they probably charge the passengers for their use, either boarding or deplaning  
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flyinggoat
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 12:44 am

The BBJ is still available with the air stairs.
 
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 12:47 am

Quoting seb146 (Thread starter):
Besides the RJs and turboprops, are there any self-contained air stairs on any jets anymore?
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 1):
Doesn't Ryanair have them on its planes?

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BatonOps
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 1:06 am

The BAC 1-11 had them. If I remember correctly the main cabin door had to be open before you could deploy the stairs.
 
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CV880
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 1:21 am

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 5):
The BAC 1-11 had them. If I remember correctly the main cabin door had to be open before you could deploy the stairs.

Viscounts, Electras, Martin 404, CV440, F-27, YS-11, first orders of DC-9's/727's, DC-3, current B747's used as AF One.

[Edited 2013-05-11 18:23:08]
 
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 1:31 am

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 5):
The BAC 1-11 had them. If I remember correctly the main cabin door had to be open before you could deploy the stairs.

Same with the BAe 146/Avro RJ, the slide cover blocks the railing for the stairs, meaning the door needs to be opened fully for the stairs to be pulled out of its stowage. Additionally (and interestingly), the 146 could have airstairs at either the front or rear doors, not just the front.
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 1:40 am

Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 1:58 am

Quoting cv880 (Reply 6):
first orders of DC-9's

I remember the Ozark DC-9s and their air stairs, when I flew out of SGF as a kid.
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 2:01 am

Quoting cv880 (Reply 6):
Quoting BatonOps (Reply 5):
The BAC 1-11 had them. If I remember correctly the main cabin door had to be open before you could deploy the stairs.

Viscounts, Electras, Martin 404, CV440, F-27

F27!!! Are you sure? You could step directly to/from the ground on an F27, although small airstairs were usually used. Did you mean F28?

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seb146
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 2:42 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 10):
F27!!! Are you sure? You could step directly to/from the ground on an F27, although small airstairs were usually used. Did you mean F28?

Both. I remember when QX had both F27 and F28. There were a few short steps in the rear of the F27.

EDIT:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?id=0384837

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 8):
IL-86 does too

And the IL-96, IIRC.

[Edited 2013-05-11 19:46:28]
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 2:50 am

Quoting BAeRJ100 (Reply 7):
Same with the BAe 146/Avro RJ, the slide cover blocks the railing for the stairs, meaning the door needs to be opened fully for the stairs to be pulled out of its stowage. Additionally (and interestingly), the 146 could have airstairs at either the front or rear doors, not just the front.

The self contained airstairs were an option on the 146. An airline I used to work for had the 146's and they did not have self contained airstairs. We used jetways or wheeled stairs to the plane.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 10):
F27!!! Are you sure? You could step directly to/from the ground on an F27, although small airstairs were usually used.

There is currently a topic in tech/ops about this. FH-227 /F-27 Doors (by B777UA Apr 28 2013 in Tech Ops)

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 8):
Air Force One has a self-contained airstair. IL-86 does too.

There were a couple L-1011's with them also.

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antonovman
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 2:51 am

Many years ago a british holiday airline called Courtline had them on their L1011 s and i think they came out of the lower galley.
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Gemuser
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 3:36 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
Both. I remember when QX had both F27 and F28. There were a few short steps in the rear of the F27.

EDIT:http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?id=0384837

Well you learn something every day on airliners.net! I certainly never saw them on TAA & the Ansett Group, although both had so many F27 I won't say none of their airframes had them.

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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 4:26 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 14):
Well you learn something every day on airliners.net! I certainly never saw them on TAA & the Ansett Group, although both had so many F27 I won't say none of their airframes had them.
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 4:41 am

COs (former PEs) 737-100s had them....our aft jumpseat was a/c right on those planes....ricket a** things...'double knock" anyone?  
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TurkishWings
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 5:12 am

TK 737-400 also had/has self contained stairs...
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 5:41 am

I have seen a private B757 with a self contained set of stairs
 
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 5:46 am

I believe the airstairs were only on the Fairchild F-27s and FH-227s, not the Fokker F.27s. I have also seen 737-200s with airstairs on both the L1 and L2 doors.
 
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 6:10 am

British Airways had L1 airstairs on their BAC1-11s - except the LHR-based -510s - apparently they were removed to save weight and maintenance costs - except they found they needed to add ballast to counteract the weight difference. There was a rumour in BA that there were 20-odd shipsets of 1-11 airstairs lying around somewhere at Heathrow [ TB(A,B,C, etc)].

The BHX-based -400s and -539s retained the L1 airstairs as delivered - not sure about the MAN-based a/c...
 
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 8:01 am

They are an option on all 737-NG aircraft...
They were standard up through the -500, but were made optional with the NG to save the outrageous weight and maintenance costs. Hated those things!!!
 
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 8:11 am

Didn't the DC9 have airstairs at the very rear of the aircraft?
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 8:19 am

The 727, DC9 and Caravelle had built-in air stairs in the rear. But the ones in the 727 uniquely, had a dual function. They could support the airplane's weight and prevent the aircraft's nose from going up, if something went wrong during loading/unloading on ground.


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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 8:40 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 22):

They had, but I believe a few of the series 10 did not
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edina
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 8:40 am

Quoting antonovman (Reply 13):

The Court aircraft had air stairs that extended from the hold on the right hand side of the aircraft and aligned with door 3 right.......it was the PSA aircraft that had air stairs from what was the lower lounge.
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 8:46 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 21):
They were standard up through the -500, but were made optional with the NG to save the outrageous weight and maintenance costs.

That's why its surprising to find Ryanair with them, but they obviously did the sums and decided it was cheaper than paying for ground equipment. Do all Ryanair a/c have them or just a subfleet for specifc routes?
 
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 9:28 am

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 26):
That's why its surprising to find Ryanair with them, but they obviously did the sums and decided it was cheaper than paying for ground equipment. Do all Ryanair a/c have them or just a subfleet for specifc routes?

I don't work for Ryanair, so take this with a grain of salt, but Ryanair is the antithesis of "subfleet". I very much expect that the airstairs are fleet-wide. At least, every single FR flight I've flown on had them, and used them.
 
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 9:37 am

The Dassault MERCURE also had built in air stairs


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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 9:43 am

I think some of BA's early A320s (G-BUS*) had integral airstairs at L1.
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 9:50 am

The continuations of the DC-9 (MD-8x, MD-90, 717) all have retractable stairs in the rear. All of DL's DC-9s/-88s-90s have airstairs at door 1L but all of thos ehave been deactivated.
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 9:53 am

I'm not sure whether it was indeed installed on production aircraft, but Lockheed also proposed this kind of self-contained air-stairs.

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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 10:06 am

It was mentioned earlier, but IL86 do, and interestingly they do on a lower deck (on a level where you would load cargo). Aparently this is due to remote airports in Russia which had no stairs high enough to board a IL86
 
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 10:15 am

Quoting loranfair (Reply 19):
I believe the airstairs were only on the Fairchild F-27s and FH-227s, not the Fokker F.27s.

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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 10:32 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 21):

They are an option on all 737-NG aircraft...
They were standard up through the -500, but were made optional with the NG to save the outrageous weight and maintenance costs. Hated those things!!!

The price must still be lower compared to what the airports charge. Otherwise FR wouldn't use them I assume.
 
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 10:35 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 2):
And they probably charge the passengers for their use, either boarding or deplaning

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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 10:45 am

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 23):
But the ones in the 727 uniquely, had a dual function.

A third function was a convenient way to parachute from the plane.
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okay
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 10:50 am

ATR 72/42, F50 and SAAB 340/2000 have self contained stairs IIRC.
 
CXfirst
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 10:56 am

F100 also had the option.

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rutankrd
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 10:59 am

Lufthansa's original short fuselage 737-130 models had a unique rear integral air-stair then required the door to hinge downwards rather like a number of Biz-jets at the time.


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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 11:16 am

The DC-9 & BAC 111 had integral air stairs because a lot of the airports that they flew into didn't have ground facilities. The air stairs made the aircraft self sufficient. Remember these jets were responsible for bringing jet service to cities that previously had none.

Sometimes I'd see the cabin door open first and then the airstairs extend and sometimes you'd see the airstairs extend first then the cabin door would open. To me it looked weird how those stairs would just extend out of the fuselage of the plane at L1. When you walked up those stairs they were not as steady as a jetway would be.

I know that at ORD BN never had a BAC 111 use a jetway. They would always part parallel to the terminal an you would go down stairs to the ramp level and board via the airstairs. Was the BAC too low for their jetways? I seems the BAC 111 was much lower to the ground than the DC-9 was.
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rutankrd
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 11:17 am

Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 20):
British Airways had L1 airstairs on their BAC1-11s - except the LHR-based -510s - apparently they were removed to save weight and maintenance costs - except they found they needed to add ballast to counteract the weight difference. There was a rumour in BA that there were 20-odd shipsets of 1-11 airstairs lying around somewhere at Heathrow [ TB(A,B,C, etc)].

The BHX-based -400s and -539s retained the L1 air-stairs as delivered - not sure about the MAN-based a/c...

Manchester, Heathrow and Berlin shared the use of the BAC1-11-510ED - The front stairs were not used as far as I remember through on many occasions I have boarded them through the tail stairs on the odd number stands on pier B and gate 44 at Manchester.

Integral air-stairs were popular with many European Charter airlines in the seventies because many of the summer sun fields were poorly equipped at the time.

Thus most B732s had them upfront and all (Western) Tee tails of the time had them. Caravelles had both front and tail stairs as did some Dc-9s and the majority of BAC1-11s
 
thrufru
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 11:26 am

To answer the initial poster's question, yes there are new aircraft around with self-contained airstairs. Miami Air has them and we frequently use them on our 737-800's. However... They are not the preferred method of boarding/deplaning. The stairs, while self-lit and extremely sturdy, can be kind of scary for a lot of people. Stepping directly out of the aircraft onto a very, very steep staircase with what appears to be Popsicle sticks for handrails isn't easy for a lot of people, and you can pretty much forget the typical passenger trying to climb it with a standard sized carry-on. Conversely, though, they can also result in a stop by stop cost savings. By using our own stairs in OMA this week, we saved nearly $800 in associated fees.
 
edina
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 11:39 am

Quoting Strathpeffer (Reply 29):

They did, but were deactivated by the mid 90s, and were rarely used in any case. The control panels were just adjacent to the door hinge at 1L, and were simply placarded "INOP" after deactivation.
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Tristarsteve
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 11:59 am

Quoting Strathpeffer (Reply 29):
I think some of BA's early A320s (G-BUS*) had integral airstairs at L1.

Yes they were fitted on delivery.
I saw them demonstrated at the factory at Toulouse.
But on delivery they were made inoperative because of a safety interlock problem, and they were never used. Later on they were removed. The control box was still fitted at the nose leg however.
I believe that the 10 A320 as ordered by BCAL were the only A320 with airstairs?
I also believe that A320 airstair were never used by passengers?
Anyone seen a photograph?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 12:07 pm

Quoting beau222 (Reply 18):
I have seen a private B757 with a self contained set of stairs

Indeed


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Virginblue4
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 12:11 pm

Flybe 195's have self-contained air stairs at the front and obviously so do the Q400's as they are part of the door.
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edina
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 12:15 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 44):

Thanks for that! I knew they hadn't been touched since I started working on the A320 in '95....didn't realise they had never been used. My initial cabin crew manual for the Airbus contained operating instructions for the air stairs though for my first couple of years on the type, which made me think they had been used at some stage.
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Ditzyboy
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 12:33 pm

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 30):
The continuations of the DC-9 (MD-8x, MD-90, 717) all have retractable stairs in the rear.

The 717 does not feature aft airstairs. I believe it was removed as an option during the design phase to increase fuel efficiency.
 
Strathpeffer
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 2:31 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 44):

I have/had a poster of all the types regularly visiting DUS many years ago - no idea where it is now - but the A320 photo is a BA one with the airstairs deployed and a crew member sitting on the bottom step doing paperwork on a clipboard. That is how I knew they had them!
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