b747400erf
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Carrier Options For Airplanes

Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:37 am

I recently found out some airlines choose not to have certain options for their airplanes installed. I get why someone like Southwest when they had a large classic fleet would opt for the side by side displays on their 737 NG's, but I don't get why some airlines like Southwest and Alaska chose not to have any automatic callouts. No V speeds, no altitude alerts, minimums, etc. What is the reason for this? Is it to make sure the PNF is paying attention and calling them out manually?
 
Max Q
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RE: Carrier Options For Airplanes

Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:42 am

No, it's pretty simple.


Less options cost less money.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
cornutt
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RE: Carrier Options For Airplanes

Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:46 pm

I'm surprised to find out that this is optional rather than standard on the NG's... it would seem to be all software, so there's no incremental cost to install it on a particular airplane. Or maybe that's the idea... it's in there, but you have to pay Boeing to turn it on.  
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Carrier Options For Airplanes

Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:44 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Thread starter):
I get why someone like Southwest when they had a large classic fleet would opt for the side by side displays on their 737 NG's

If by the side by side displays you mean the "mechanical instrument" simulation on the displays they were only one of several customers to select that -- Hapag LLoyd being another. SWA did not have auto throttles initially either but several years ago they activated the auto throttles and map vs HSI/speed tape vs airspeed presentation.

Quoting B747400ERF (Thread starter):
No V speeds

A lot of people don't get the "V1" callout or V speeds in the FMC if that's what you're talking about..

Quoting B747400ERF (Thread starter):
no altitude alerts, minimums, etc.

The altitude alerting system is operational, however, approach altitude callouts (GPWS system) are optional and there are 20 to 30 variations from nothing to everything. Some 747 and 777 customers only get a "50 feet" call, nothing else.

Quoting cornutt (Reply 2):
I'm surprised to find out that this is optional rather than standard on the NG's... it would seem to be all software, so there's no incremental cost to install it on a particular airplane. Or maybe that's the idea... it's in there, but you have to pay Boeing to turn it on

Since it is all software you can pick whatever you want from instrument display, to altitude alert setting, to GPWS callouts and I believe most of them are "no cost options".
 
cornutt
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RE: Carrier Options For Airplanes

Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:19 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 3):
Since it is all software you can pick whatever you want from instrument display, to altitude alert setting, to GPWS callouts and I believe most of them are "no cost options".

Ah, okay. That makes sense. But then the cost issue for not ordering the callouts doesn't hold water. Must be an operational or training reason. Maybe they are trying to maintain some commonality with the Classic series.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Carrier Options For Airplanes

Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:55 pm

Quoting cornutt (Reply 4):
Maybe they are trying to maintain some commonality with the Classic series.

Airline to airline I think commonality is the driving force especially with things like the GPWS callouts where there is the most diversity option wise.

On their initial 737 NewGens (the rest of you call them classics) UAL got "V-bar" flight directors to be the same as their 737 Classics (the rest of you call them Jurrasics) later changing the software to the standard "split-cue" when the earlier models were retired -- you could see where the "V-bar" was worn into the screen.

Same reason SWA and HAP (and a few others) did EFIS/MAP and later switched to PFD/ND -- commonality.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Carrier Options For Airplanes

Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:26 am

Thank you for the info, 7Boeing7... I just don't get why not select GPWS altitude callouts, V speed callouts, etc. It adds to safety.

[Edited 2013-06-29 17:26:26]
 
Okie
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RE: Carrier Options For Airplanes

Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:25 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 6):
Thank you for the info, 7Boeing7... I just don't get why not select GPWS altitude callouts, V speed callouts, etc. It adds to safety.

Some might consider additional callouts a distraction or overload during a high workload scenario. Hearing is the first thing ignored by the brain in a high work load environment.


Okie
 
rfields5421
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RE: Carrier Options For Airplanes

Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:52 am

Quoting cornutt (Reply 4):
But then the cost issue for not ordering the callouts doesn't hold water.

There is also the costs for additional cross training and recurrent simulator training.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Carrier Options For Airplanes

Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:18 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 6):
Thank you for the info, 7Boeing7... I just don't get why not select GPWS altitude callouts, V speed callouts, etc. It adds to safety.

If you've got a fleet of airplanes with several different models or just more than one type of a model, if the older airplanes aren't "V1" callout capable (without a cost which you don't want to pay) it detracts from safety if the same crew is flying both -- the day the s?#t hits the fan is also the day the PNF will forget to call out "V1". Commonality increases safety which is why (if possible) most airlines like all the airplanes of one model to look just like all the others.

Sometime the option selection is based on a previous airline incident/accident. Although every other customer has both a Flaps and Gear GPWS Inhibit Override switch in their 737's, Continental only got the Flap Inhibit switch because of a previous accident where a flight crew had overrode the gear warning and landed gear up.

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