StarAC17
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Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:55 pm

Hey everyone,

I saw White House Down this weekend and there is a scene where they take off a VC-25 (Air Force one) from Andrews AFB and say that they will be at 30,000 feet in 45 seconds. The scene in the is clearly CGI and its a movie, but is that actually a possibility for this aircraft considering it is a USAF modified 747 and a presume rarely at MTOW ??

Would this also be something that Boeing and other manufacturers would have had to do with their planes when testing it before certification??
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CplKlinger
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:18 pm

No, not a possibility with any 747. That works out to a 40,000 ft/min climb rate. The only aircraft in that arena are fighters.
 
SAAFNAV
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:22 pm

Well, since a F-15 can do it in 30 seconds, and the F.6 Lightning climbed to 36 000' in 3min, a B747 really needs to haul @ss to do it.

But, if you can have an escape pod from it and air-to-air rescues like the movie Air Force One, I guess you can climb that fast as well.
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tb727
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Thread starter):
Would this also be something that Boeing and other manufacturers would have had to do with their planes when testing it before certification??

No. That's about 40,000' per minute rate of climb. An F-15 could do it but not the 747, even modified(reasonable modification)in any way at a minimum weight.
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RussianJet
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:55 pm

That would be a particularly cool 747. Presumably it could go near-vertical.   

On a particularly silly note, would it be possible to put some humungous, giant, fighter-style rockets with afterburner onto something like a 747, in order to achieve such ludicrous performance? Would the force just rip the pylons off the wing? Has anything even vaguely similar been tried?
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Max Q
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:04 pm

Thats about as likely as reaching 10,000 feet by the shoreline departing LAX..
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njxc500
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:16 pm

According to another thread here on A.net, the Saturn V rocket took 72 seconds to get to 30,000 FT, so.......yeah.
 
PITingres
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:16 pm

Quoting njxc500 (Reply 6):
According to another thread here on A.net, the Saturn V rocket took 72 seconds to get to 30,000 FT, so.......yeah.

That's because the S-1C was underpowered. Had the Saturn program continued, the F-1's would presumably have been replaced by uprated F-1A's. Real rockets   get to 30K a lot faster.

But OK, I get your point. You'd have to pretty much stand a 747 on end to achieve that sort of climb rate, and the only thing that's going to happen if you stand a 747 on end is a crushed tail.
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CplKlinger
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:24 am

The only way the 747 is reaching 40,000 ft/min of anything is in a steep dive. A dive all the way to the crash site.
 
flymia
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:54 am

Maybe if it takes off using a treadmill?
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zeke
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:11 am

If they took off, held it at 500 ft, cleaned up while accelerating to 300 kts, pitched up 20 degrees, it will still take around 4-5 minutes with a vertice speed of around 10000 fpm.
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B777LRF
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:01 pm

Conveyor belt, anyone? Perhaps a phalanx of JATO bottles? But, perhaps, most importantly: A complete disregard for aerodynamics and physics. Which is just Hollywood staying true to form, as in being purveyors of entertainment and not facts.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:47 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 11):
A complete disregard for aerodynamics and physics. Which is just Hollywood staying true to form, as in being purveyors of entertainment and not facts.

Indeed, but so much mindless fun.

http://www.nextmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/fast-furious-runway.jpg
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bristolflyer
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:26 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4):
On a particularly silly note, would it be possible to put some humungous, giant, fighter-style rockets with afterburner onto something like a 747, in order to achieve such ludicrous performance? Would the force just rip the pylons off the wing? Has anything even vaguely similar been tried?

Oh yes it has...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCl3lfAx1Q
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ADent
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:48 am

Looks 8,000 to maybe 10,000 fpm is possible on an empty airliner at takeoff.

I bet an empty VC-25 is not a light plane with all its extra fittings.

So a VC-25 with almost no fuel (refuel once at cruising altitude?) could do it in 5 min+?
 
StarAC17
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:12 pm

Quoting tb727 (Reply 3):
No. That's about 40,000' per minute rate of climb. An F-15 could do it but not the 747, even modified(reasonable modification)in any way at a minimum weight.

When you look at the rate then yes this is clearly movie physics.

On another note if a 747 was climbing at 10000ft/min, what would be the G force felt by a passenger?
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Mir
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:12 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 15):
On another note if a 747 was climbing at 10000ft/min, what would be the G force felt by a passenger?

A steady-state climb is a 1G maneuver - it's the getting into that climb (upward acceleration) that'll cause the G-forces. If the transition from level flight to the climb were done gradually (which would admittedly cost time), then the passengers shouldn't feel much of anything.

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RussianJet
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RE: Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.

Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:21 am

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 13):
Oh yes it has...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCl3lfAx1Q

That's pretty bonkers.
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