RussianJet
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'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:33 am

A mischievous comment in another thread about a certain 787 that caught fire recently being a 'lemon' got me thinking. We are all used to the concept of a 'Friday afternoon' car, in other words an unreliable or particularly maintenance-heavy example of a particular model of car. The obvious logic behind that phrase is that the workers are in a rush to get down the pub after work on a Friday and botch the car to get our of work early. I know that modern quality control for aircraft is likely to be very tight, but I was wondering if anyone can cite any examples of an otherwise generally reliable aircraft type that just keep breaking down all the time, or which were just made less well than most of the others.

How common, if at all, is it to get a particular ship that is like the 'Friday afternoon' car, and requires twice as much work on it as the rest of the fleet? Again, to clarify - I'm not comparing different types, but rather different examples of the same type of aircraft.

Interested to hear any stories you might have.
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Stitch
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:39 am

As fast as Airbus and Boeing pump out 737s, they have not yet reached the point where they can rivet one together during a single shift...

Probably the closest analogy we have would be early production frames that need to be modified due to change incorporation requirements resulting from the flight and certification tests. Extreme examples would be the early build 787-8s, some of which will have sat for years before entering service and undergone significant modifications. Less extreme examples would include early-build 747-8s and the A380-800s that sat for a time due to the wiring issues.
 
RussianJet
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:49 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
As fast as Airbus and Boeing pump out 737s, they have not yet reached the point where they can rivet one together during a single shift...

Well sure, it's only a very vague analogy to get the point of the question across....

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Probably the closest analogy we have would be early production frames that need to be modified due to change incorporation requirements resulting from the flight and certification tests. Extreme examples would be the early build 787-8s, some of which will have sat for years before entering service and undergone significant modifications. Less extreme examples would include early-build 747-8s and the A380-800s that sat for a time due to the wiring issues.

I figured that early examples would potentially be problematic, but for the purposes of this question mere 'teething problems' can be excluded.
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PGNCS
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:54 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):As fast as Airbus and Boeing pump out 737s, they have not yet reached the point where they can rivet one together during a single shift...

Well sure, it's only a very vague analogy to get the point of the question across....

Yes, "Hangar Queens" definitely exist. I recall a specific 767 which I always dreaded if it showed up at the gate. I seriously wanted to cut it up for scrap myself. I absolutely detested that thing.
 
bluejuice
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:37 am

I shed no tears when one particular AA 752 was sent to ROW. On one flight, the lead FA and I traded stories on how often that bird went mechanical. I swear she was kicked out the hangar Friday afternoon at 4:59PM with a few handful of bolts and fasteners missing.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:45 am

Did these airframes exhibit different issues, or more of a recurring single issue?

And if multiple, were they in different systems or generally in the same area (like eutectic gremlins, hydraulic leaks, pneumatic leaks, etc.).
 
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:10 am

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
How common, if at all, is it to get a particular ship that is like the 'Friday afternoon' car, and requires twice as much work on it as the rest of the fleet?

It seems that every fleet at every airline has that one plane that looks like it's been through a war, can't stay out of the hangar, won't stay trimmed, just can't seem to fly completely straight, etc.

Many seem to have the opposite too.
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RussianJet
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:12 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):

It seems that every fleet at every airline has that one plane that looks like it's been through a war, can't stay out of the hangar, won't stay trimmed, just can't seem to fly completely straight, etc.

Many seem to have the opposite too.

I guess the question is what this can be attributable to. Is it a poor build, bad luck, or what?
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mandala499
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:41 pm

I know one A333 who keeps shifting between ELEC, BLEED, and HYD... It would have a series of problems on the particular systems for 3 months, then move to another system. Yes, the maintenance guys hate that one.

Then I know of an A320 which seems to hate a particular city. Whenever it's sent there or goes through that city, it would develop all sorts of problems.

And then there was a 734 here which no matter what you do to it at the hangar, as soon as it goes over FL340, the pressurization system would go haywire... it ended up being sent on shorter routes and often stuck below FL270... somehow... *and surprisingly this was not the most fuel guzzling 734 in the fleet*

And then there used to be a 732 whose rear toilet would go bust every friday or sunday afternoon.

Lots of those, yeah....
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kanban
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:34 pm

I was always suspicious of the quality on planes assembled during machinist's strikes by managers.. or inspected by managers.. yet as arrogant and out of practice as they were, the planes themselves had no problems.
 
roseflyer
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:51 pm

In my experience working on airplane reliability metrics, there usually isn’t one airplane as a whole that is far worse than the fleet. There were some best planes that rarely had problems, but usually not an airplane that was by far the worst.

What we did have were isolated systems that constantly had problems. For example, I analyzed one airplane flying around the network for 3 months where mechanics could not solve the cabin temperature problem. There were 50 write-ups about it, but each repair didn’t work correctly and since the airplane was in a dispatcheable condition, the dispatchers were not wanting to release the airplane. Eventually after enough time and countless attempts to fix the problem, the plane was removed from service and went on some test flights to truly diagnose and fix the problem.

Many times you will see chronic airplane problems. It’s part of the reliability programs to monitor airplanes for consecutive writeups for similar problems. Each airline has its own program, but typically there is a maintenance controller that reviews events on airplanes to help get an airplane fixed so that it does not keep flying around with a problem. It may be a case where the fault isolation manual doesn’t properly cover a condition, or it is a problem that is intermittent. These types of things can be a real headache, but the pressure to dispatch is always there, so often a mechanic does not have the time or resources to check everything that could possibly be wrong.

Airplanes have far too many systems for one to be worse than another across the board. Most airlines avoid closed routing where airplanes operate in an isolated part of the network (for example exclusively between two cities). The reason has a lot to do with maintenance and airplane reliability. If one airplane for example constantly was being flown into an airport that had fine sand (think desert airport), then it would chronically have more problems than the others that stayed in cleaner environments. Some airplanes might accumulate more cycles or flight hours. Having a ratio different from the rest of the fleet can cause problems. Each airline has subfleets so individual airplanes may be in more challenging operating conditions. Flying to airports like HKG, KIX, SFO, HNL, etc with reclaimed land runways is notorious for corrosion.
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RussianJet
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:58 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 10):

Thanks for the detailed insight.
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longhauler
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:11 pm

Aircraft are all just machines, right?

Personally, I don't think so. I think they have a "soul", and some are better than others. Some are reluctant, and some are just downright nasty!

We have one A320 we refer to as Christine. As she has a mind of her own. I wont mention which one, as she is still flying for us. But back when I was on the A320, one would encounter a few WTF moments, then ... you'd look, "Oh yeah, this is Christine!".

Understand, this is not bound in fact, or statistics ... just a feeling.

We had two DC-8s we referred to as "Disco Duck" and "Waltzing Matilda". (It was a different era back then). But they too had a different feeling from the rest. I don't know if I would call them lemons ... just different.
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Klaus
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:59 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 12):
Understand, this is not bound in fact, or statistics ... just a feeling.

It's how we humans deal with complex behaviours of technical systems – even if there is a deterministic, fixable condition at the root of some undesirable system behaviours, as long as we don't have the time and means to get down to it, it can still make sense to use the patterns and capabilities of our human minds to recognize and describe some of its symptoms.

Debugging complex technical systems is one of my occupational requirements, but even though I know that's not exactly how these things work, I still intuitively recognize the "character" of a malfunction. Intuition is not a bad thing in connection with technology, as long as you know its limitations.
 
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:30 am

Quoting kanban (Reply 9):
I was always suspicious of the quality on planes assembled during machinist's strikes by managers.. or inspected by managers.. yet as arrogant and out of practice as they were, the planes themselves had no problems.

Amazing what a healthy dose of 'give a crap' coupled with genuine fear of unemployment can do.  
Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
It's how we humans deal with complex behaviours of technical systems – even if there is a deterministic, fixable condition at the root of some undesirable system behaviours, as long as we don't have the time and means to get down to it, it can still make sense to use the patterns and capabilities of our human minds to recognize and describe some of its symptoms.

Debugging complex technical systems is one of my occupational requirements, but even though I know that's not exactly how these things work, I still intuitively recognize the "character" of a malfunction. Intuition is not a bad thing in connection with technology, as long as you know its limitations.

+1

The human mind has plenty of shortcomings that must be mitigated with sound doctrine and procedure, but I think we ignore intuition (which is code for a bunch of internal calculations for which the entering arguments and formula are unknown to us) at our peril.
 
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:39 pm

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 14):
The human mind has plenty of shortcomings that must be mitigated with sound doctrine and procedure, but I think we ignore intuition (which is code for a bunch of internal calculations for which the entering arguments and formula are unknown to us) at our peril.

Indeed. The more experience you've gathered, the more your human intuition may be able to help in solving even technical problems.
 
PGNCS
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:23 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
Did these airframes exhibit different issues, or more of a recurring single issue?

And if multiple, were they in different systems or generally in the same area (like eutectic gremlins, hydraulic leaks, pneumatic leaks, etc.).

I can't address all hangar queen incidents, but in the case of the 767 I related it was an early build aircraft and there were multiple repetitive issues with multiple systems. The feelings about this aircraft ran very deep in the pilot group; the great news is that it is no longer flying. THAT was a wonderful day.
 
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:59 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
The more experience you've gathered, the more your human intuition may be able to help in solving even technical problems.

I have encountered this many times over the years. Often, after I have datalinked a snag, the AMEs wish to meet the aircraft on arrival ... they want that "intuitive" feel input for their troubleshooting. Usually it is for "obscure" snags, that seem to reappear.

Lately, it has been odours in the cabin, the "dirty sock" smell, and its inherent dangers.
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:48 pm

I think anyone working with aircraft, regardless of their particular area of work, at least feels they will have one of those perceived lemons in the fleet. Speaking for myself, it's been a long time since i've had a real ''lemon'', a B747-200F.

It was AOG right after being delivered & certainly it's first few weeks it did not have a single leg in it's rotations that was not hit with technical problems. But even after that it had more problems then the other aircraft in the fleet which were of similar type & age. It suffered from different issues every time, the only constant issue i do remember was one of the autopilots not being able to maintain straight flight. I think they've swapped out or replaced everything they could but it always seemed to come back to the point were crews said that whatever happened they were not going to use that autopilot. The crew that finally flew her to VCV tried it & found that problem was still around. Wonder if she's already met the scrapper.

In hindsight fond memories, she threw a lot of surprises at us & I've spent a lot of evenings turning into nights or even mornings due to all kinds of problems. I certainly won't forget some of the colorful discussions about her problems & some of the more unique descriptions which were put in the tech logs.

Today though it's not nearly that bad. There are a few niggles here & there but nothing that would deserve the ''lemon'' label 
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HorizonGirl
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:59 am

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 18):

I think anyone working with aircraft, regardless of their particular area of work, at least feels they will have one of those perceived lemons in the fleet.

This is very true! And from the largest to the smallest, there are some that just simply have minds of their own. Working on the ramp, or even as a passenger, you can sometimes pick up on an aircraft's personality. This is especially noticeable if you spend a lot of time with or on a particular type.

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DL_Mech
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:10 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 10):
I analyzed one airplane flying around the network for 3 months where mechanics could not solve the cabin temperature problem. There were 50 write-ups about it, but each repair didn’t work correctly and since the airplane was in a dispatcheable condition, the dispatchers were not wanting to release the airplane. Eventually after enough time and countless attempts to fix the problem, the plane was removed from service and went on some test flights to truly diagnose and fix the problem.

We had a 767 with a similar problem, what was eventually found was missing bonding wires between A/C ducts near the mix manifold. With the cargo compartment lights off, you could see static electricity sparks jumping from the ducts to the temp sensor wiring.

Another 767 had a flap asymmetry problem and after weeks of troubleshooting, a call was made to Boeing. Their solution? Change the APU Battery Charger. Problem fixed. Go figure.....
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tb727
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:28 am

We have had a couple in our fleet. I wouldn't really call them lemons but just a plane that you knew was going to be strange. I had the honor of doing the last flight to the scrap heap for one of them last year. Last month I flew its sister that's still in the fleet and, well, we currently aren't on speaking terms.
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bellancacf
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:47 am

What an enjoyable thread! Thanks!
 
Alitalia744
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:05 am

Wasn't G-BNLB nickenamed "bird never left base"
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RussianJet
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:55 pm

Quoting bellancacf (Reply 22):
What an enjoyable thread! Thanks!

I just knew that people would have some stories to tell! The result has not disappointed me.
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seabosdca
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:05 pm

I think it's a natural consequence of probability that some aircraft will seem "cursed." Problems are never going to be evenly distributed. They will always affect some frames more than others.

I've never been employed in aviation but when I worked for an urban bus agency, there were definitely some buses that you "knew" you would be writing up. And just like the aircraft above, the early-built examples of a particular type were generally the worst.
 
Flighty
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:42 pm

While I have never seen data specific to each tail-number (UAL has a nice OR department for that), the dispatchers I know say there are definitely tough cases. At one carrier, old 757s that came from multiple earlier operators tended to have recurring issues.

Then, they made an effort to invest some money... D-check the hell out of certain older aircraft, do uniform configs of interior & cockpit equipment, and reliability smoothed out.

It's kind of like Delta and the MD90s. Spending money now, so they succeed with high dispatch reliability later.

[Edited 2013-07-22 07:43:37]
 
stratosphere
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:34 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 8):
Then I know of an A320 which seems to hate a particular city. Whenever it's sent there or goes through that city, it would develop all sorts of problems.

Funny you mention that. At my current carrier we didn't have a particular a/c but we had a city (BIL) that ANY a/c we sent there chances were it was going to break. We had one break there and we sent a recovery flight then the recovery flight also broke then we sent another recovery flight and it too broke so we had 3 a/c there broke at the same time we couldn't send another one due to no ramp space left. Thankfully that city has been quiet lately..lol
 
Aircellist
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:23 pm

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 18):
some of the more unique descriptions which were put in the tech logs.

Could you share some?  
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roseflyer
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:14 pm

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 27):

Funny you mention that. At my current carrier we didn't have a particular a/c but we had a city (BIL) that ANY a/c we sent there chances were it was going to break. We had one break there and we sent a recovery flight then the recovery flight also broke then we sent another recovery flight and it too broke so we had 3 a/c there broke at the same time we couldn't send another one due to no ramp space left. Thankfully that city has been quiet lately..lol

This reminds me of a reliability problem I worked on at an airline. The most frequently canceled flight for mechanical reasons was a real oddball. It was a short 1 hour flight to a relatively small outstation. No one could figure out why that flight had such a high cancellation rate. It turns out that a really smart reliability engineer went investigating and found out that this was the last flight of the day from a major hub on a subfleet. That hub had no regularly scheduled planes of that subfleet saying at the airport overnight. The hub had 6 airplanes sitting at the hub overnight, but they were a different type of plane. What was happening is the dispatchers were constantly tail swapping airplanes during the day when an airplane went out of service for mechanical reasons. The last flight standing often had no airplane left to fly the route, so it would take cancelations. In reality it was a scheduling flexibility problem, but because any airplane out of 20 flights that went out of service earlier in the day resulted in this flight being canceled since maintenance wasn’t always able to get the airplane fixed in time. One quick phone call to scheduling to get a plane of that subfleet spending the night at the hub fixed the problem and the cancellation rate disappeared overnight.

Sometimes you think cities or airplanes are cursed, but an airline with a robust reliability department can solve problems like that. Again in my experience, even though mechanics and dispatchers may complain about one airplane being worse than the other, the reliability numbers are generally very consistent. You get a few really good reliable planes, but with a well structured schedule and maintenance program, there shouldn’t be airplanes way worse than the fleet. It’s the reliability department’s job to fix that.
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Grisee08
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:27 am

Reading this thread reminds me of the stories of Eastern's L-1011, Ship 318. Not exactly the same thing, but there were all the stories going around that it received salvageable parts from 310, and that was when all the freakies started occurring. Like I said, not exactly the same thing as the thread suggests, but still interesting.   
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travelavnut
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:33 am

Quoting bellancacf (Reply 22):
What an enjoyable thread! Thanks!

I agree, very fun to read!!

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 8):
I know one A333 who keeps shifting between ELEC, BLEED, and HYD... It would have a series of problems on the particular systems for 3 months, then move to another system. Yes, the maintenance guys hate that one.

Then I know of an A320 which seems to hate a particular city. Whenever it's sent there or goes through that city, it would develop all sorts of problems.

And then there was a 734 here which no matter what you do to it at the hangar, as soon as it goes over FL340, the pressurization system would go haywire... it ended up being sent on shorter routes and often stuck below FL270... somehow... *and surprisingly this was not the most fuel guzzling 734 in the fleet*

These and other similar replies really give some personality to aircraft and even though I know it's just between our ears it's still fun!

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 20):
Their solution? Change the APU Battery Charger. Problem fixed. Go figure.....

Hahaha that's hilarious!

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 27):
We had one break there and we sent a recovery flight then the recovery flight also broke then we sent another recovery flight and it too broke so we had 3 a/c there broke at the same time we couldn't send another one due to no ramp space left.

:D  
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RussianJet
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:00 pm

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 27):
Funny you mention that. At my current carrier we didn't have a particular a/c but we had a city (BIL) that ANY a/c we sent there chances were it was going to break. We had one break there and we sent a recovery flight then the recovery flight also broke then we sent another recovery flight and it too broke so we had 3 a/c there broke at the same time we couldn't send another one due to no ramp space left. Thankfully that city has been quiet lately..lol

That story is absolutely ridiculous! The chances of that happening must be absurdly low. Hilarious, though I probably wouldn't be laughing if I was booked on that flight.
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HorizonGirl
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:31 am

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 27):

I can't remember where, but I've heard this story before. I'm pretty sure something similar happened in YYJ once? Definitely not hilarious at the time, but you can't help but laugh now. What are the odds?

The funny thing is, they don't even have to have engines to behave differently from one another. Back when I was flying gliders with the Air Cadets, we had a fleet of 10 active at the time, and one just did not want to play nice. Some of the crew involved denied it completely, saying "all the planes are exactly the same." Fair argument, but I was certainly not alone in noticing this aircraft was not interested in the pilot having a good time. In contrast, there was one in particular that everyone loved dearly, and every flight seemed to go smoothly.

It also did not take me long to learn which aircraft at the flying club I fly with are "nice" and which ones are a little... special.


Devon
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9MMPQ
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:15 pm

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 18):
some of the more unique descriptions which were put in the tech logs.
Quoting Aircellist (Reply 28):
Could you share some?

The unserviceable toilet took top spot with me, according to the F/E it was apparently blocked and the handle used to flush no longer responded. The entry in the log read ''sh*t chute defective''.

Another one for a canoe fairing which was found to be missing upon arrival read ''Found upon arrival canoe fairing took off for a boat ride''.

Our rather famous weird auto pilot i once saw described as ''developing and maintaining a continued weave in level flight, like a drunk duck''. Home base engineering had responded with ''Not familiar with drunken duck behavior however replaced/swapped items associated (whatever items it were, i have know idea anymore) with that auto pilot. By then it was a bit of a notorious item.

On the longer days with all the gripes and some sarcastic jokes made there were some nice creative inputs to be noted 
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L410Turbolet
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:21 am

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
How common, if at all, is it to get a particular ship that is like the 'Friday afternoon' car, and requires twice as much work on it as the rest of the fleet?

I have no way to verify this information but I've seen it mentioned several times on local aviation forums: OK-FGS was THE last 737-400 off the production line, delivered to CSA in 2000. This particular a/c was quite unpopular with the mechanics due to being prone to more defects than other 737s in the OK fleet.
 
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RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:58 am

There was a very early 727 that was famous for being a total hangar queen, a -291 non-ADV, serial 19993/549, delivered in the late sixties to Frontier, spending most of her glory days with Braniff. Wouldn't fly straight, always going tech, the lemon of the fleet.

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You know her cos she got the Calder treatment on the USA bicentenary in 1976.

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And despite her temperamental nature, went on to have a varied career post-Braniff, although no-one held onto her for long (can't imagine why!) - not pictured is World Airways, Cayman Airways and Arrow Air.

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Photo © Johan Ljungdahl
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Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.


Final days in Turkey.

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Photo © Wolfgang Mendorf


I bet a few retired Braniff mechs saw this and when they noticed the reg - still intact! - must have been on their feet cheering (it's from the movie Bad Boys):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc4X84rn4HU

If only all lemons met the same fate!
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
dispatchguy
Posts: 606
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:08 am

RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:33 am

When I was at UAL, we had one particular "Christine". Nose number 3449, would run the ORDHNL nonstop for days like a champ, then go down HARD for a hydraulic problem, would take several days to get back in the air.

When I worked the DC10 pilot crew desk, if I saw it assigned the ORDHNL, I would always check my recrew options if it went down after the crew had reported to ops. That practice saved me multiple times.
Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
 
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Dano1977
Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:49 pm

RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:20 pm

Jetting down to Portugal in the late 80's early 90's on a defunct airline called "British Island Airways"

Due to fly down to Faro on an MD83 but it went tech. Unbelievably that night, their other 3 MD83's went tech also.

Being an inquisitive teenager, I asked about the problems to a member of staff, and they said the MD83's were nothing but trouble and always going wrong. They got better reliability from a 20/30 year old aircraft.

result was a 6hr delay and a fantastic ride on one of their BAC1-11's, which when deplaning through the rear air-stairs and walking under the wing, leaked oil on my brand new Global Hypercolour T-Shirt.
Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
 
Max Q
Posts: 5693
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:58 am

Hard to believe, they must have maintained their -80's very badly.


It was and is one of the most reliable Aircraft ever made.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
PGNCS
Posts: 2249
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:07 am

RE: 'Lemons' - Bad Instances Of Particular Type

Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:18 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 39):
Hard to believe, they must have maintained their -80's very badly.


It was and is one of the most reliable Aircraft ever made.

Agreed. I suppose statistical aberrations do occur, but that does seem out of the norm. In over 10,000 hours on the MD-80 series I can count the number of MX cancellations I have had on one hand; I have had far worse rates on other aircraft.

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