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czbbflier
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Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:11 am

Greetings-
Forgive my complete ignorance but I have always been curious about Russian flight instruments.

I've assembled a couple of pictures here and am very curious to know which instrument is which.... they don't seem overly self-explanitory to me (I can be a bit slow, I admit).

Would someone be so kind as to name them as I have labeled them?

Thank you kindly.




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Photo © Sergey Kustov




(Thanks to Sergey Kustov for this picture)
A-
B-
C-
D-
E-
F-
G-
H-

(D and E look like altimeters but why are there two? How does one adjust for barometric pressure differences?)

Is the turn indicator hidden behind the right yoke handle?

The other instruments that I haven't labelled appear to be all the radio instruments.



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Photo © Youri Kabernik - Russian AviaPhoto Team



(Thanks to Youri Kamernik for this picture)

I am curious about the large gauges above the windscreen.

A-
B-
C-

Obviously A (and there are four of them) are engine instruments. What do these instruments indicate? EGT? Engine RPM?

B is actually IN the overhead panel, above the engine instruments.
C is the anomaly. What does it indicate?

Thanks for educating!!!
 
ak907
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:12 am

First Pic (IL-76)

A- Mach Meter
B- Airspeed
C- not sure, maybe AOA and G meter
D- Altimeter
E- maybe backup Altimeter
F- Radio Altimeter?
G- my guess top four are trim settings, elevator and aileron. Bottom probably flaps or spoilers indicator.
H- Pressure gauge for something

Second Pic (IL-62)

A- Engine Vibration
B- Clock
C-

These links might help you:
http://de.academic.ru/pictures/dewiki/73/IL62_2.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../a/a0/Cockpit_Ilyushin_Il-76MD.jpg

[Edited 2013-09-02 22:15:11]
 
AF1624
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:56 am

Here's my take on it:

A- Mach meter (usual units)
B- Airspeed, in kilometers per hour (goes up to 11, so 1100km/h)
C- Angle of attack and G-meter
D- Radio altimeter in meters
E- Baro altimeter in meters (may be the other way around)
F- A navaid distance indicator in kilometers
G- Control surface position indicators
H- No clue

Second pic:

A- No idea, ofc some source of engine instrument
B- Clock, you can see 6 on the bottom, 3 on the right and 9 on the left
C- I would imagine it's the differential pressure indicator... but 5 seems a bit low to me as a max diff
Cheers
 
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czbbflier
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:02 am

Thanks, you two.

I appreciate your stabs at these.

I've always been curious and apparently, I'm not the only one stymied by the differences in instrumentation.

Cheers!
 
sovietjet
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:29 pm

H - says something about "тормозах" (brakes) but I am not sure what exactly.
 
bueb0g
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:27 pm

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 4):
H - says something about "тормозах" (brakes) but I am not sure what exactly.

Brake pressure or temperature gauges maybe?
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mandala499
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:28 am

1st pict...
E- Baro altimeter in Feet
F- Distance Measuring Equipment (for VORDME) in Kilometers.
H- Brake Temperature gauge (2 wheels per gauge? It has 2 warning lights per gauge).

2nd pict...
A - Fuel Flow, outer = kilograms per hour, inner = liters per hour, all are x1000.
C, I dunno, looks like a total fuel burn.
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RussianJet
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:29 pm

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 4):
H - says something about "тормозах" (brakes) but I am not sure what exactly.
Quoting bueb0g (Reply 5):
Brake pressure or temperature gauges maybe?

Торомозах is the plural form of brakes in the prepositional case, meaning it is something 'in the brakes' - so, pressure or temperature are indeed the likely candidates.
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KELPkid
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:30 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 7):

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 5):
Brake pressure or temperature gauges maybe?


Торомозах is the plural form of brakes in the prepositional case, meaning it is something 'in the brakes' - so, pressure or temperature are indeed the likely candidates.

Don't most Soviet types use air brakes (because hydraulic brakes have issues in sub-Arctic conditions, like a Siberian winter)?
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torontofly
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:05 am

First Pic (IL-76)

H- Pressure in brakes kgf/sm2

Second Pic (IL-62)

C- is marked bellow as fuel tank #7. It is graduated in 1000 kg. I think it shows amount of fuel in a vertical stabilizer

[Edited 2013-09-07 17:10:24]
 
RussianJet
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:06 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 8):
Don't most Soviet types use air brakes (because hydraulic brakes have issues in sub-Arctic conditions, like a Siberian winter)?

No idea. I'm no expert in such things. I was merely suggesting likely variants based on the word we could see,
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KELPkid
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:41 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 10):
No idea. I'm no expert in such things. I was merely suggesting likely variants based on the word we could see,

Well, if it has Air Brakes (like a train or a truck), you would need to know the air pressure in the system. You can deplete all the air in the air brake system if you are careless   And when you do, you have no brakes...
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Fabo
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:08 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 8):
Don't most Soviet types use air brakes (because hydraulic brakes have issues in sub-Arctic conditions, like a Siberian winter)?

First time I hear that.

Besides, the normal use case is not that different for a 154 then say for a 732. Not every plane has to fly to arctic circle.

Now, to the pics. (Yeah, I know, repetition)

A. Combination machmeter / speedo. Almost definitely shows Mach and TAS in 1000s of KM/H (0.5 = 500km/h)
B. Combination IAS(CAS) / TAS speedo. Outer ring, IAS in km/h, inner ring TAS in km/h
C. AoA/G gauge. Very handy. I am wondering why it is not common in western types. Good for figuring out how far from stall you are, proper approach speed and similar.
D. Altimeter in meters. Setting in mmHg (760 being standart)
E. Altimeter in feet. Setting in hPa, probably. Cannot really see. You can see a yellow bug set to 200, if QFE is used this corresponds to typical ILS minimums.
F. DME
G. Flight controls position annunciator.
H. Brake pressure indicator.

Il-62
A. Fuel flow meter.
B. Clock.
C. Tank 7 fuel indicator. (the others are the instruments just under, we can only see the bottoms.
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rcair1
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:37 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 8):
Don't most Soviet types use air brakes

I don't think so. Airbrakes are not good in very cold weather. You get condensate due to the compressor (water), then that settles and freezes. It is very common for truck airbrakes to lock on when parked in cold weather.

In addition - airbrakes work 'backwards' from how most brake systems operate. The brakes are 'applied' by a spring and then released by air pressure. That is why, in a train or truck, you must wait for brake pressure to build to a certain level before you can release the brakes and move off. Prior to reaching that pressure - there is not enough to release the brakes. This is a fail safe system - if you lose pressure, you stop. Our fire trucks sit in the station on compressor so the brake pressure is up and we can move off immediately.

That means that if you loose pressure, you'd hit the runway with brakes/wheels locked.

There are air brake systems that run (ran) in the opposite sense - they used pressure to apply the brakes. They were called "straight Air Brakes". If you lost pressure - you lost brakes. In one sense, this is like a hydraulic system. The difference loosing pressure is much more common in air systems. They are under pressure all the time so if you develop even a small leak - you lose all your pressure. Hydraulic (braking) systems are under pressure only under braking - so they typically do not fail completely from a small leak.

Of course - you would build in redundancy - multiple systems - just like we do with conventional brakes. Some locomotives use straight air brake systems today - with redundancy.

One of our fire trucks is based on a 6x6 military AMG chassis and has been retrofitted with air brakes and air power steering. Works well except when turning a lot (like backing and filling to turn around), you can actually use the steering so much you drop the air system down and the brakes cage. You then sit there till you build enough pressure to release the brakes.

BTW - if your brakes lock and you and you power through, you can twist off the drive shaft (yes we have done that).
rcair1
 
KELPkid
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:39 am

Quoting Fabo (Reply 12):
First time I hear that.

Besides, the normal use case is not that different for a 154 then say for a 732. Not every plane has to fly to arctic circle.

And yet, we have H:

Quoting Fabo (Reply 12):
H. Brake pressure indicator.

Why would you need to know brake pressure in a hydraulic system?   I've never seen a brake pressure indicator in anything that didn't have air brakes...

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 13):
I don't think so. Airbrakes are not good in very cold weather. You get condensate due to the compressor (water), then that settles and freezes. It is very common for truck airbrakes to lock on when parked in cold weather.

You can put a dryer in the line...I see them all the times on shop air compressor installations.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 13):
There are air brake systems that run (ran) in the opposite sense - they used pressure to apply the brakes. They were called "straight Air Brakes". If you lost pressure - you lost brakes. In one sense, this is like a hydraulic system.

I'm guessing that if you were to put air brakes in an aircraft, this is the type you would use. You wouldn't want the brakes locked if the lines couldn't hold pressure...

EDIT: I've spent the evening scouring the internet for this info in a language I can read. Can't find it. I do know the Yak-52 and the AN-2 have air brakes...and I have heard from the (US) owners of those types that air brakes are quite common in Soviet aircraft. That is what I based my previous statements upon...

[Edited 2013-09-09 23:44:48]
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Fabo
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:57 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
EDIT: I've spent the evening scouring the internet for this info in a language I can read. Can't find it. I do know the Yak-52 and the AN-2 have air brakes...and I have heard from the (US) owners of those types that air brakes are quite common in Soviet aircraft. That is what I based my previous statements upon...

Yes, in small types. Not in jet airliners.

As far as I know, there were also western small types with air brakes in 30s-40s at least.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
Why would you need to know brake pressure in a hydraulic system?   I've never seen a brake pressure indicator in anything that didn't have air brakes...

I have no idea - that is what it is though.
Maybe it had to do with Il-76 supposed use in wartime, i.e. transport on semi-prepared airstrips. These gauges are not present in this form on general use airliners (Tu-154 for example).
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mandala499
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RE: Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions

Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:24 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
Why would you need to know brake pressure in a hydraulic system?

All the Airbus FBWs have a brake pressure gauge... and those brakes are powered by hydraulics, as a separate analogue gauge.... the gauge includes an accumulator pressure, and brake pressure for left and right brakes... All three gauges only measure the Yellow Hyd system part of the brakes... which is the back up Hyd system for the brakes (normally running off the Green Hyd system).

Those gauges are used when the primary HYD for the brake system isn't available, so you're likely to have no anti-skid, or some other form of brake performance degradation depending on the brake system set up pertinent to the aircraft type... that's when you need the brake pressure gauges.
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