rchapin
Topic Author
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:00 am

Destination Radar Environment

Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:00 am

How does one determine if a destination airport is a radar environment?

I am raising this question after reading the FAA Risk Assessment Guide from http://1.usa.gov/1ag80Bw The example destination is Kitty Hawk North Carolina (KFFA), which it says is not a radar environment.

The Pilot/Controller Glossary defines radar environment as "an area in which radar service may be provided."

When I look in the A/FD, I can find symbols for approach and departure radar (circle-R), airspace, and ASR approach minimums. KFFA has none of those symbols.

So, what is a destination radar environment? The local controller needs to be radar equipped? Approach control is provided?

Would my nearby airports KYIP, KANG, or KRMY be radar environments?
 
tb727
Posts: 1733
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:40 pm

RE: Destination Radar Environment

Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:31 pm

Quoting rchapin (Thread starter):
Would my nearby airports KYIP, KANG, or KRMY be radar environments?

Well as far as YIP goes, when I was a student pilot back in '99 we went up into the tower, they have a radar feed from Detroit Approach but as it was explained to us, they couldn't use it to give any vectors or anything but they would point out traffic if they had to. Detroit Approach has that job will give you flight following and vectors to approaches and all that on 118.95 in that area.

RMY you can get the same with Kalamazoo approach, same with ANJ from Toronto Center. I have noticed that there is a lot more radar coverage now compared to even 8-10 years ago not only in MI but across the rest of the country. I always used to have to do the full ILS approach into OSC but now Minneapolis Center has radar coverage down to something like 500' AGL in that area and we get vectors.

Interestingly if you look at CIU, just south of the Soo, it must be just outside of Toronto's coverage that is probably centered at CYAM and doesn't have radar coverage like ANJ does so no circle R.
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rchapin
Topic Author
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:00 am

RE: Destination Radar Environment

Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:57 am

Oops not KANG, the code is KMTC.

Anyway, it sounds like the circle R for approach is the answer I need? An airport could be within the lateral area of an ARTCC and have published IAPs but might not get approach services?
 
tb727
Posts: 1733
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:40 pm

RE: Destination Radar Environment

Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:19 pm

Quoting rchapin (Reply 2):
Oops not KANG, the code is KMTC.

Anyway, it sounds like the circle R for approach is the answer I need? An airport could be within the lateral area of an ARTCC and have published IAPs but might not get approach services?

KMTC has it's own approach control operated by the base. They are really friendly and always give me shortcuts coming to YIP from Canada.

Yes, the circle R sounds like what you need to look for. If it's in the lateral area and has that symbol you should be able to get services I would think.
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rchapin
Topic Author
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:00 am

RE: Destination Radar Environment

Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:54 pm

Quoting tb727 (Reply 1):
Interestingly if you look at CIU, just south of the Soo, it must be just outside of Toronto's coverage that is probably centered at CYAM and doesn't have radar coverage like ANJ does so no circle R.

Also at KERY there are instrument approaches but no approach frequency or circle-R.

If you look at KCIU on the en-route chart, it shows up on the Minneapolis side of the ARTCC boundary, but I do remember flying there and getting a hand off to Toronto.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2281
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Destination Radar Environment

Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:47 pm

Quoting rchapin (Reply 4):
If you look at KCIU on the en-route chart, it shows up on the Minneapolis side of the ARTCC boundary, but I do remember flying there and getting a hand off to Toronto.

That's because FIR boundaries and actual ATC sector boundaries are not necessarily the same.

Ex. Toronto FIR and Montreal FIR.

http://www.navcanada.ca/ContentDefin...oom/NR-Related/Facility_Map_EN.pdf

let's take Kingtson airport in Ontario (CYGK) as an example. Even though Kingston lies within Toronto FIR, it is controlled by a sector staffed by Montreal air traffic controllers, in Montreal. In fact, from Campbellford (YCF) all the way to Ottawa, below FL230, is entirely controlled by Montreal.

Same thing goes for the high level airspace above North Bay (FL290+).

We have a similar situation (on a smaller scale) between Montreal FIR and Boston ARTCC. If you have a look on the IFR approach charts into Cornwall, Ontario (CYCC), the APP/DEP frequency listed is Boston Centre 135.25. That's because that chunck of airspace, even though over Canada, has been delegated to Boston, due to conflicting approaches at Massena, NY (KMSS).

Thenoflyzone
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