lexkid12300
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Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:40 am

Hi all:

I just started watching this movie from 1964 and need some help identifying an aircraft in the opening scene. Here are a few still photos:

http://i41.tinypic.com/33wkys2.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/icrbsg.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/3wxlj.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/o8feq9.jpg

For a clip, watch between 17 seconds and 36 seconds of this movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S05w9pvXwo

The aircraft is wearing the tail N 813 CA but i can't find anything on google.

Thanks for the help!

[Edited 2013-10-14 18:43:48]

[Edited 2013-10-14 18:44:44]

[Edited 2013-10-14 18:45:25]

[Edited 2013-10-14 18:52:16]

[Edited 2013-10-14 18:54:11]
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:18 am

Quoting lexkid12300 (Thread starter):
a few still photos

Oh Lordy, that's that POS model airplane they pieced together for that movie. It looks like about three different types all merged together. Nose and tail like mostly like a -7, kinda Cometesque wings. Stupid engine placement. Ach!
Even worse than this was the sound effects of this thing starting and then taking off all while making the sound of numerous jet-turbines starting. Ridiculous and it drove me to distraction when I was young because I was a stickler for detail if the media was going to to inject itself in anything aviation related.  
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
PapaChuck
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:31 am

Like Eagle said, it's an old Douglas four engine prop, most likely a DC-7, reworked for the movie to look like a jet. It is by no means an actual aircraft type. It's the kind of conversion seen here:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © N94504



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KELPkid
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:26 am

IIRC, in Fate is the Hunter, Ernest Gann wrote about his "lucky" experience in an early DC-4, where he could have died had he taken a particular set of actions. As I recall, he flew the bird to Hawaii, and the outbound crew (Hawaii to mainland) crashed, and as a result, Douglas discovered a design flaw in the bird...the aircraft in the movie clip is obviously fake, though. How many jet engines have you seen hung off of the horizontal stab?  
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Starlionblue
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:49 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
How many jet engines have you seen hung off of the horizontal stab?

Cough... B-2707... Cough, cough... http://www.testpilot.ru/usa/boeing/2707/images/b2707-200_1.jpg
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Fabo
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
Cough... B-2707... Cough, cough... 

Man, one can actually see that one somewhere? 
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KELPkid
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:16 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
Cough... B-2707... Cough, cough...

One must really wonder if Boeing was inspired by the movie version of Fate is the Hunter...   

Quoting Fabo (Reply 5):
Man, one can actually see that one somewhere?

As I recall, at least one cockpit mockup, and a few fuselage mockups (for sales, etc.) still exist...didn't Boeing actually start construction on the prototype, only to abandon the project before construction was complete?
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:08 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
fuselage mockups

Last I knew the mockups were sold to some circus down in Florida and were last seen decaying away in a central Florida jungle somewhere. I'm sure it must make a good home for venomous snakes and spiders at least.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:17 am

I love how any thread which veers onto the B-2707 immediately becomes about the B-2707. For good reason, that plane is seen as one of the ultimate lost opportunities in aviation. Being awesome beyond belief helps of course.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
bohica
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:51 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
How many jet engines have you seen hung off of the horizontal stab?

Let's rephrase the question. How many airplanes have flown which has jet engines mounted on the horizontal stabilizers?
 
KELPkid
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:51 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 7):
Last I knew the mockups were sold to some circus down in Florida and were last seen decaying away in a central Florida jungle somewhere.

There is a full forward fuselage mockup at the Hiller Museum in California...
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oly720man
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:14 pm

Back on track. From this thread (is nothing ever new here?) it was a DC7B that was modified for filming purposes

"Fate Is The Hunter" Airliner Crash Movie 60's (by RHSNYC May 9 2004 in Civil Aviation)
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ANITIX87
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:33 pm

Speaking of ridiculous modified aircraft for movies, this is the aircraft used in the new Agents of SHIELD series (which is utterly spectacular, barring some of the technological ludicrousness and this aircraft's design).

6-engined C-17, anyone?
http://shieldtv.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Jet.jpg

With winglets on the rear wing? Hope there's no crosswind, or those are coming off!
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130517001021/agentsofshield/images/5/53/Globemaster.png

Someone didn't do their FOD analysis very well....
http://marikalee9.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/2notfirefly.png

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oly720man
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:38 pm

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 12):

And as noted elsewhere ( http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Talk:Marvel's_Agents_of_S.H.I.E.L.D. ) they couldn't get the plane out of the hangar because the slot in the middle is for a single fin not a T-tail, as can be seen in the top pic in the link.

As I often tell my students, just because you can draw it in a CAD package doesn't mean it'll work or you can put it together.
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Viscount724
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:47 pm

Quoting oly720man (Reply 11):
Back on track. From this thread (is nothing ever new here?) it was a DC7B that was modified for filming purposes

Some sources say 2 DC-7Bs were used. Other sources refer to one ex-AA DC-7, although it could have been a -7B since AA operated both the standard -7 and the -7B.
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:50 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
2 DC-7Bs were used

It was ridiculous whatever it was!
The sounds they played for take-offs drove me nuts! So stupid.

Reminds me of the old joke about the old lady that took her first Jet flight and asked "aren't they even going to use the propellers for take-off"?
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:59 pm

While we are on the topic of old aviation movies   , does anyone recall the name of a movie that had a DC-2 or DC-3 (I don't remember) It was a real bad-luck flight----an oxygen container or something fell against the pax door and the flight attendant fell out. Then it developed engine trouble and crash landed in the jungle somewhere.
There were pax who survived and after a few days the natives (who were supposedly known to be canabalistic) started to beat drums. The pax became terrified because when the drums stopped the savages would come and eat them. They managed to fix the engine and by some miracle managed a jungle -take-off   , and the women and children flew away. The the people who were left supposedly comitted suicide with some freak using a pistol.

Anyway, I recall bits and pieces from years ago but not the name. It was entertaining if a bit ridiculous.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
FlyHossD
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:47 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 16):
While we are on the topic of old aviation movies   , does anyone recall the name of a movie that had a DC-2 or DC-3 (I don't remember) It was a real bad-luck flight----an oxygen container or something fell against the pax door and the flight attendant fell out. Then it developed engine trouble and crash landed in the jungle somewhere.
There were pax who survived and after a few days the natives (who were supposedly known to be canabalistic) started to beat drums. The pax became terrified because when the drums stopped the savages would come and eat them. They managed to fix the engine and by some miracle managed a jungle -take-off   , and the women and children flew away. The the people who were left supposedly comitted suicide with some freak using a pistol.

Anyway, I recall bits and pieces from years ago but not the name. It was entertaining if a bit ridiculous.

Psst... Don't say that too loud. Hollywood is so bereft of original ideas that they might just try this one again. So, SHHH!
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:42 pm

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 17):
Hollywood is so bereft of original ideas

    

Yes. However, it might not be bad to remake it now that special effects are so much better. I still remember the take-off from that patch in the jungle. Hilarious. It's a wonder a wing didn't catch on a vine and cart-wheel the plane!
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
AR385
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:56 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):
I love how any thread which veers onto the B-2707 immediately becomes about the B-2707. For good reason, that plane is seen as one of the ultimate lost opportunities in aviation. Being awesome beyond belief helps of course.

You are the expert of course, but judging how successful the Concorde and the Tu-144 were, I think Boeing was lucky not to have proceeded with developing their 2707

As for the OP, that´s a fictional plane, but the base fuselage looks like a DC-7
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:51 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 19):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):
I love how any thread which veers onto the B-2707 immediately becomes about the B-2707. For good reason, that plane is seen as one of the ultimate lost opportunities in aviation. Being awesome beyond belief helps of course.

You are the expert of course, but judging how successful the Concorde and the Tu-144 were, I think Boeing was lucky not to have proceeded with developing their 2707

I wouldn't say expert.  

I do think that if Concorde (and/or B-2707) had been produced in three digit numbers things would have developed somewhat differently. Concorde-B would have come along quite soon, with significantly better economics and much lower noise footprint. Then we would have had some Concorde-C and so on. Not that the fuel burn would ever have reached 787 levels, but it would at least not have been so comparatively hideous.

Tu-144 was sadly a non-starter. Brute force engineering of that sort may work for a military aircraft, but is hopeless for an airliner.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
oly720man
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:08 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 16):
While we are on the topic of old aviation movies   , does anyone recall the name of a movie that had a DC-2 or DC-3 (I don't remember) It was a real bad-luck flight----an oxygen container or something fell against the pax door and the flight attendant fell out. Then it developed engine trouble and crash landed in the jungle somewhere.
There were pax who survived and after a few days the natives (who were supposedly known to be canabalistic) started to beat drums. The pax became terrified because when the drums stopped the savages would come and eat them. They managed to fix the engine and by some miracle managed a jungle -take-off   , and the women and children flew away. The the people who were left supposedly comitted suicide with some freak using a pistol.

Anyway, I recall bits and pieces from years ago but not the name. It was entertaining if a bit ridiculous.

.... and the film is.......

"Five Came Back"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Came_Back
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0031314/

Remade as "Back From Eternity", it would seem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_from_Eternity
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048975/
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rfields5421
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:09 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 16):
It was entertaining if a bit ridiculous.

It was two excellent movies with some surprising casts doing great jobs acting.

Yes, the aviation element of getting an aircraft downed in a forced landing back in the air and having to leave three passengers behind was a bit of a stretch. (Flight of the Phoenix - both of them - is an even bigger stretch).

Seeing the Capelis XC-12 in the earlier movie is always a treat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capelis_XC-12

The cause of the aircraft going down is completely plausible. Getting lost in storms when navigation is largely DR happened a lot.

PanAm lost a B377 in the Amazon in the early 50s. Far off course, when wreckage was found - the CAB investigation team with Brazilian Army support had to cut their on-site investigation short because of attacks by local natives.

In those times in many parts of the world, carrying large heavy objects in the cabin was all too common.
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:07 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):
I love how any thread which veers onto the B-2707 immediately becomes about the B-2707. For good reason, that plane is seen as one of the ultimate lost opportunities in aviation. Being awesome beyond belief helps of course.

Not really a lost opportunity, it was a step too far for the technology of the time. Boeing couldn't make the 2707 work. It was too heavy.
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Can Anyone ID This Aircraft?

Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:41 am

Quoting oly720man (Reply 21):
and the film is.

Yes! Thank you! I It has been so many years since I last saw one of those flicks I would never have remembered.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 22):
es, the aviation element of getting an aircraft downed in a forced landing back in the air and having to leave three passengers behind was a bit of a stretch. (Flight of the Phoenix - both of them - is an even bigger stretch).

Yeah, special effects in those days was certainly lacking. Those were great movies though.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"

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