jetsetterusa
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To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:41 am

Ok with starting this topic I know I am going to hit a nerve! As an US employee I would like to see first come first serve! If you think about it, its the fairest way for all employees! I am only talking about NRSA and not biding for days off or vacation!

What is your stand on things?



I am a 5year employee in PHX!
AKA "Crazy Day Tripper" lets see PHX-COS, PHX-NRT,PHX-MSO
 
JoePatroni707
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:46 am

Jetsetter-

I agree, first come first serve. It has been that way at AA forever! Seniority for bidding shifts, VC, etc. We will see what happens.

Just out of curious what does USAir charge for non revving???
 
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:48 am

Quoting jetsetterusa (Thread starter):
I would like to see first come first serve! If you think about it, its the fairest way for all employees!

Not really; I recall the days where my friend who was a ramper at HP would call friends at the airport to check him in early so he could ensure he was always #1 on the standby list. That's hardly "fair" to those who don't know someone at the airport.

Seniority should definitely matter.

I'm not an AA or US employee so I've got no dog in this fight, but definitely prefer a seniority-based system over first-come, first-served.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
aacun
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:49 am

I have never worked for an airlines that based their non rev priority on seniority. And i believe it wouldnt be fair specially for the new employees. I think its all right the way it is at AA right now. First come first serve........
 
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:50 am

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 1):
I agree, first come first serve. It has been that way at AA forever!

If AA does first-come, first-served and US still does (I believe) then why does this thread even exist?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
drmlnr1
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:50 am

As a former AA employee, I do agree with you. Junior employees would have the same shot as senior employees. All the times I was non rev, I got on board all the flights I listed for. I loved non revving. Wish I could still. I would like to be the first to say welcome to the AA family.
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:51 am

Quoting aacun (Reply 3):
it wouldnt be fair specially for the new employees

So why is vacation bidding, shift bidding, holiday bidding, and so on "fair" yet determining non-rev boarding priority by seniority isn't? Explain.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
AJMIA
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:02 am

I like the concept of first come first serve...

But the problem is AA does truly have first come first serve because of the D#T - THRU.
An employee making a connection has priority over an originating employee.

Example:
In DFW an employee flying IAH-DFW-LAX would board before an employee flying DFW-LAX even if the employee flying from DFW had checked in earlier.
I spent two days stuck in DFW when thunderstorms shut down the airport. The first day was a wash out because of the storms, but the second day I was stranded because employees originating in other stations were coming through as THRU passengers and even though I had already been stuck for a day and they had just checked in that morning, the thru status got them on ahead of all the local DFW originators who had been stuck since the day before.

If we really want to have a true first come first serve policy we need to get rid of the thru status and process people by their checkin time.

It is no longer necessary to checkin at the airport. Flights open for checkin 24 hours in advance and you can check in from any smart phone or computer.
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
jetsetterusa
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:03 am

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 1):
Just out of curious what does USAir charge for non revving???

No charge for any employee only thing we need to pay is INTL taxes and FC! But when i went to TLV it was $43.34 and GIG is $32.65 so it pretty much free!

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 6):
So why is vacation bidding, shift bidding, holiday bidding, and so on "fair" yet determining non-rev boarding priority by seniority isn't? Explain.

Remember I am not talking about that just for NRSA for all others seniority is fair because of the time put in! Its fair to the new hires that always want to travel and how is it fair for a 5year employee like my self trying CLT-PHX and been there since 6am and the time is 8pm wile someone that was sitting hat home all day long and shows up to the airport 45min befor the flight and bumps me! Just useing that as an ex.... I rather so something like CLT-SAN-PHX because after all i am the Crazy Day Tripper  

[Edited 2013-11-05 20:09:07]
AKA "Crazy Day Tripper" lets see PHX-COS, PHX-NRT,PHX-MSO
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:08 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 6):
So why is vacation bidding, shift bidding, holiday bidding, and so on "fair" yet determining non-rev boarding priority by seniority isn't? Explain.

I certainly have no horse in this race, but can see why NRSA should be different. Shift bidding etc is obviously done by seniority as it is a perk for their service. On NRSA however it isn't really fare for a junior employee to, for example, potentially miss their shift just so that a senior employee can go on vacation. If the junior employee knew where they had to go and how to get there, and had the foresight to checkin at T-23:59, then good for them IMHO.
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chepos
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:13 am

My vote goes to FCFS, at the end of the day the higher ups will male this decision for us (in the event of a merger)
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FutureFO
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:37 am

US is seniority based boarding. And by priority.
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737tdi
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:47 am

I don't post here a lot but I will here. Seniority based non rev is absolute crap. I work, and you work for the same airline. I came from somewhere to learn a skill. With me it is maintenance. Just because a secretary hired in a few years before me and gets to bump me??? NO. I had to have a minimum of 3 years heavy jet experience prior to hiring on. What did she have to have??? NO, Seniority based non rev is wrong and fortunately my airline does not observe it.
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:54 am

I prefer date of hire. When I was an HP employee, it was a big change going to DOH and I thought I was going to hate it. Truth be told, it hasn't really worked against me too much, and sometimes has helped me. There are fewer perks all of the time in this industry, and it is nice to be able to exercise seniority. As a manager, it is about the only thing I get for my time with the company. In any event, non-rev travel is a privilege which I use a lot, and will enjoy the benefits whether it be DOH for boarding or time of check in.

My biggest sticking point with time of check in is that it gives an advantage to connecting passengers. Say a non rev upline pax is flying NRT-LAX-CLT on the new AA, and I want to fly LAX-CLT. The NRT pax is going to have a 12+ hour advantage of check in time since they are checked in all of the way through. With fewer and fewer seats to fight for, it really puts me at a disadvantage if I live in a hub city and want to non rev. Fortunately, I live in a line station, so time of check in my actually help me out.

Having worked under both (time of check in with HP/DOH with US) I am curious to see how my other US employees and AA counterparts feel as well.
The New American is arriving.
 
ouboy79
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:55 am

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 7):
It is no longer necessary to checkin at the airport. Flights open for checkin 24 hours in advance and you can check in from any smart phone or computer.

I like how WN does it. First come first serve for NRSA, with all employees 2nd on the list after any revenue pax. Although we can check in online early, we can't be added to the stand by list until 2 hours prior of our first leg for the day. That can be done only at the kiosk or the gate.

Nothing can really be done against those who get people to check them in, but really...at 2 hours prior, you should be at the airport by then anyway.
 
N243NW
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:07 am

I could see some sort of hybrid plan working if AA/US were to choose to do so.

For example, from 24 hours to 23 hours prior to flight time, employees are ordered by seniority. However, starting at 23 hours before departure, all subsequent flight listings will be based strictly on a first-come, first-served basis. This way, if a senior employee jumps in front of a junior employee, the junior employee will have plenty of time to make alternate plans if need be. I'd hate to see a strictly seniority-based system where a long-time employee can just walk up out of nowhere 2 hours before flight time and jump straight to first in line. There's always some degree of uncertainty about whether or not I'll get a seat (especially with today's record load factors), but at least there would be fewer last-minute surprises this way.

If it has to be completely one way or another, I'd prefer AA's current method. The prospect of always being last on the standby list wouldn't really excite me if I were an off-the-street job applicant, especially if I knew how high load factors have become. Frankly, in the past year for me it's become pretty much worthless to even consider nonrevving on a Sunday most weekends.
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737tdi
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:10 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 14):
Nothing can really be done against those who get people to check them in, but really...at 2 hours prior, you should be at the airport by then anyway

I totally agree. I have seen a couple of check ins before me and I am the only person sitting there.. I actually challenged a CSA and she rebutted me but ya know what? That name dropped off of the list 5 minutes later. It is not worth their job. If it were seniority based I would be out of luck and I've been here 13 years.
 
BDL757
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:21 am

This is interesting! At DL we go by seniority which I really don't mind. I don't have to make sure I'm on the internet 24 hours prior to check in. Actually since its based on seniority I can look at all the flights and see which ones will be worth my time. Also, active employees are given 6 higher priority passes per year that you can use to go ahead of people senior to you. If you happen to be connecting or on a thru flight number you have to be cleared onto each flight. For example if you are flying BOS-ATL-AUS and you get onto the BOS-ATL flight you will need to be cleared (in seniority order) for the ATL-AUS flight. Just because you got on the flight in Boston doesn't mean you're getting out of Atlanta!!!
 
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:40 am

Quoting jetsetterusa (Reply 8):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 6):So why is vacation bidding, shift bidding, holiday bidding, and so on "fair" yet determining non-rev boarding priority by seniority isn't? Explain.

Remember I am not talking about that just for NRSA for all others seniority is fair because of the time put in!

I completely understand that; I'm just asking for you to explain why you feel exercising your use of a benefit like non-rev travel shouldn't be linked to seniority. Yes, junior employees are at a disadvantage, but then again they're at a disadvantage for vacation bidding, shift bids, holiday bids, line bids (flight crews) and so on - all based on the fact that longevity is rewarded.

So again, why is seniority ok for everything except non-revving? It seems like if you're against a seniority-based system, you should be in favor of abolishing it across the board and not for just certain aspects or benefits of the job.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:26 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 18):
So again, why is seniority ok for everything except non-revving? It seems like if you're against a seniority-based system, you should be in favor of abolishing it across the board and not for just certain aspects or benefits of the job.

That one's pretty clear for me but I don't want to start a riot.

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 17):
This is interesting! At DL we go by seniority which I really don't mind. I don't have to make sure I'm on the internet 24 hours prior to check in. Actually since its based on seniority I can look at all the flights and see which ones will be worth my time. Also, active employees are given 6 higher priority passes per year that you can use to go ahead of people senior to you. If you happen to be connecting or on a thru flight number you have to be cleared onto each flight. For example if you are flying BOS-ATL-AUS and you get onto the BOS-ATL flight you will need to be cleared (in seniority order) for the ATL-AUS flight. Just because you got on the flight in Boston doesn't mean you're getting out of Atlanta!!!

And i'm glad they got rid of that stupid rule. Fortunately, we don't have a ton of thru flights anymore. I can tell you what changed that policy was efforts by SLC leadership.

I guess it comes down to what you're use to. We're use to a seniority based system which is fine by me actually. If I REALLY need to get somewhere I buy a ticket. If I HAVE to be back to work on a certain date I buy a ticket. It's that simple.
What gets measured gets done.
 
jetsetterusa
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:07 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 18):
So again, why is seniority ok for everything except non-revving? It seems like if you're against a seniority-based system, you should be in favor of abolishing it across the board and not for just certain aspects or benefits of the job.

This is just me but i don't care when my vacation or days off or my shift times are! My thing is travel   working for an airline I can get any day off that I want might cost me something like a lunch here and there but it can be done! And with the NRSA program you can get someone lunch to get on eather with FCFS or the way I don't like it by hire date! I like to say this sometimes how is it fair that a person got hired in 1976 can get everything that they want when I (DOB of 1986) was not even thought of by my mom and dad since they were in high school   cant get a fair chance to getting on a flight because i was not even born yet  Give everyone a fair chance to travel this is why most people come and work for the airline! Keep the vac and days off for date of hire   sorry for the rant i fell strongly for the fairness for all when it come to travel  
AKA "Crazy Day Tripper" lets see PHX-COS, PHX-NRT,PHX-MSO
 
apodino
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:35 pm

HP was FCFS, and US has always been seniority. When the merger happened, Doug Parker took a poll of many employees at the new company and based on this feedback, decided that Seniority would be the priority. I think at the time that Seniority was decided, the East employees thought they were going to fare better on this as opposed to the west employees. Nicolau aside, not sure how this has actually worked.

The one thing I don't like about US currently is unlike the other majors, there is no display in the gate area which shows the standby list in order, so you can see where you stand. This will likely change when the merger is complete. Actually, the A gates in PHL are already configured in a way that would allow this. The F gates used to be, but for some reason they took out all the FIDS screens at the gates and reverted to the old hand operated sign at the departure gate. B and C would still need to be refitted, as would the gates in every concourse in CLT, save for some on the D concourse. PHX would need to be refitted as well.

I will say though, I have never run into non rev issues where seniority has hurt me. In fact, one time the only reason I got on a flight is because a Republic pilot showed up at the last minute for a republic flight, and since he had priority on his own metal a family of three that was non reving didn't have enough seats to all go together, and they had higher priority than me, so instead of them all going, they waited for a later flight and I got on.
 
Maverick623
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:51 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 21):
When the merger happened, Doug Parker took a poll of many employees at the new company and based on this feedback, decided that Seniority would be the priority.

I may be wrong, but I also think that seniority-based standby was in the FA's contract at one point.

Quoting apodino (Reply 21):

The one thing I don't like about US currently is unlike the other majors, there is no display in the gate area which shows the standby list in order, so you can see where you stand.

That will change if/when the merger goes through. For now, US just released a feature on the mobile website (not the app yet) that displays the standby and upgrade lists.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:32 am

why do they need a merger for that?
What gets measured gets done.
 
SkyTeamTriStar
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:52 pm

How can an airline run the business on a day-to-day operation if all of their employees' are stranded at the airport because a retired employee gets to the airport first to get listed, yet an employee gets stranded because the miss their shift due to first come, first served basis.

An airline has to run the business!! Retired staff and the philosophy of "first come, first served" should not be first on the list when you don't have the working staff who are stranded away from their home airport trying to get to work.
 
TUSAA
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:00 am

AA's FCFS is great, however, you had better be quick with your fingers on the computer trying to get on the standby list. It's not uncommon to have 50+ people on a SB list, and I've seen as many as 250. Hitting the enter button a second too late and you'll be #25 on the list....it's all about timing. AA has heavy loads as it is, and I've heard that DFW sometimes gets as many as 7,000 nonrevs on a Saturday or Sunday.
 
dispatchguy
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:36 am

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 12):
Just because a secretary hired in a few years before me and gets to bump me??? NO. I had to have a minimum of 3 years heavy jet experience prior to hiring on. What did she have to have??? NO, Seniority based non rev is wrong

You make it sound like youre more important than the secretary. I dont care a whit what you did before you hired on. I dont care if you needed experience working on the Blue Angels, or the Space Shuttle. The gate agent doesnt care either - DOH is fair as it rewards those who have been around longer at the airline with the seat. Life aint fair, and neither is non-revving.

Youre paid better, hopefully, than the secretary - there's your reward.
Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
 
stratosphere
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:18 pm

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 12):
I don't post here a lot but I will here. Seniority based non rev is absolute crap. I work, and you work for the same airline. I came from somewhere to learn a skill. With me it is maintenance. Just because a secretary hired in a few years before me and gets to bump me??? NO. I had to have a minimum of 3 years heavy jet experience prior to hiring on. What did she have to have??? NO, Seniority based non rev is wrong and fortunately my airline does not observe it

Sorry dude but I was in the same boat. NW was a seniority based system also. My pet peeve there was managers even low level ones had priority over non management regardless of seniority. They finally offered us non mgt people 4 passes a year that were the same boarding priority then it went according to seniority. I accepted that when I hired on non-reving was seniority based I didn't know any other way and I thought it was fair regardless of job title. If everyone likes a first come first serve thats cool also. That kind of attitiude you seem to have is exactly why we did not have any support from other groups when we (mechanics at NWA) went out on strike in 2005 and I lost almost 20 yrs seniority. If you guys wind up with a seniority based system suck it up and deal with it. Seniority is everything in the airline biz.
 
Flighty
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:38 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 14):
at 2 hours prior, you should be at the airport by then anyway.

First come first served is a hassle. It adds stress and uncertainty to an already stressful situation.

Seniority is totally equal and gives respect for people who showed their loyalty to the company. Nothing could be fairer than that. Disclaimer: I am not a US/AA employee.
 
mhkansan
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:17 pm

Only way I ever could go on long trips without too much worry and stress is because AA is FCFS. Check-in time is a fair way to travel. I hope we keep AA's travel policy.
 
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crj900lr
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RE: To All The AA/US Employees!

Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:15 am

Seniority Seniority Seniority. If your a Mainline or wholly owned employee you get first shot at your own flights on your own aircraft. If your a contract employee you get first shot on your own companies aircraft. No way a contract employee should be getting on one of my aircraft before me and likewise I wouldn't expect to board a contract companies aircraft before their own people.

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